Diamond Blue

Edward,

Have you read all the threads that have gone on at PP about this subject. Loren was nearly banned ftom PP for the attacks on other members on this subject and other posts. The only thing that has been asked of Loren is to provide the same amount of data on this subject that he has continually has asked others that have posted on this subject. No more, no less, but he chooses what data will support his position and disregards anything that doesn't. All of the after market chips that I have seen require 91 octane or above. The question about what fuel is totally relevant to how the chip performs. Loren has always asked for dyno data to back up claims of increases. I have asked before to see Lorens data to back up his testing on this matter, never have seen it yet. Loren I believe has much to offer about what he does but the constant need to condemn the use of chips with out data to back it up has become very old. My car had an Autothority chip in it for 14 years and now has a SW chip in it. The car runs great and has become ever more enjoyable to drive. If chips are as damaging as Loren has proclaimed my engine should have expired by now. As far as leaving things out due to brevity there is hours of reading, here and at PP, so Loren lets see all the data that you have left out.

944ZEN

Stop flaming Loren, he's not trying to prove anything regarding how the chips perform in a car. He's simply showing you the differences in timing, that the different chips have. How it translate into HP/TQ or anything else is not a matter in this test. This is not a real life test on a rolling board, just a comparison of some ignition maps in some chips, showing you how different chips pushes the ingnition advance further than factory spec. And then he says that pushing the timing in the Chip controlled ignition map (3.2-3.6 engines) is just like rotating the distributor in NON-DME engines like the SC, where ignition timing is controlled by the distributor. In DME cars the ignition timing is controlled by the DME not the distributor. The distributor only serves to put the spark to the right cylinder, since the DME doesnt know whitch cylinder is firing, only what time relative to cranck position.

Chuck Harmon

I have to say that I do appreciate Lorens post. I have a chip, but before I made
that decision I read everything that Loren posted and heavely considered
all the factors before proceeding. I am in the PC business.Back in the old
days of the Celaron chip overclocking was very popular. I still run a ovrclocked
PC ! Intel was not very happy with overclockers and eventually stopped
making chips that could be OC'ed. There were many websites that expounded
on the evils of overclocking and many people had blown mogtherboards and
blown chips as a result of not knowing what they were doing.
I guess what I am saying is that you have to look at both sides to see the
big picture, and it is always helpful to have a knowledgeable source to
help in those decisions.

Chuck

Ed Hughes

"Everyone knows that advancing the timing will make your engine "feel" better":

That's why I have a chip, as that is how I can advance my timing to take advantage of 93 octane fuel as I have a DME setup.

The other issue is driveability. My car is MUCH smoother off the line, as the chip has been able to even out my motor which has headers and no cat. Not all gains here are with HP.

With the ludicrous attacks he made on PP a couple of months ago, he's lost my respect. Again, why even start this thread? It wasn't in answer to a question.

Edward

Hi Michael,

No, I have not read eveything Loren has posted, nor was I aware of near banishment from PP. Perhaps there is merit to others' ire here, I have to claim ignorance on that issue. What I do recall reading, though, is many's (perhaps equally misguided) flames of his character. OK, so I can't determine whether this is or isn't founded, but that was not my goal, really. Pertaining to the threads I've read and to this most recent one, however, may I offer that at least this one had merit. Again, I conceded that he has (admittedly) left out info which I'd like to also see. Again, I am not against chips ...designed well with CARE, they are an asset to the car. I just wanted to point out, like Loren, that these gains are sometimes not without compromise (some acceptable compromises and others not), and some "gains" are simply dangerous to the longevity of one's engine. Thanks for your post, though

Edward

Lorenfb

"I'm beginning to think that your test matrix is short a few reference points, not to mention it appears to be a prime example of how not to run a controlled expirement."

- Dan Cobb -

Please re-read the initial post, as I've added an additional note to further clarify your issues.
The key point of the analysis is the excessive timing (>40 degrees). As I said, most/all Porsche
techs indicate that the timing shouldn't exceed that value.

"With the ludicrous attacks he made on PP a couple of months ago, he's lost my respect." - Ed Hughes -

You need to place the facts in the proper context and sequence of events.

That's why Rennlist is levels above other forums in its members and posts, and why I no longer
post elsewhere nor support other forums!

purrybonker

Pelican is a bit of a strange (but interesting) place... bit of a "gang" mentality there IMHO - views are respected; so long as they fit the current views of the gang. You don't **** into the wind, you don't dis Steve Wong or the American flag and you don't mess around with Jim (or the song goes something like that).

SC-targa

My Goodness! Is Loren a lighting rod? Lighten up guys. He just posted some simple data, that's not readily available, as to the changes in the ignition mapping of some aftermarket chips and the stock chip. Loren didn't identify anyone's chip in particular, he just gave simple information and his analysis of it.

I don't think it's much of a surprise to anyone, is it? Of course chips bump up the spark advance, though 50 degrees does seem like a lot. I probably would have assumed some differences in the fuel curves, but again, not a lot.

Sometimes we all take ourselves a bit too seriously. I for one appreciate Lorens knowlwedge of our injections and ignition systems.

Regards,

Jerry Kroeger

altonj

Where is this data available vieweing?

J. Brinkley

it's right here,
I want to know who is supplier B?

Edit by John D.

And it's gone again....

r911

I wouldn't mess around with Jim -- he is a fastener expert par excellance....

I regularly question views on Pelican... you may have to defend your views, other than that, I see no problem.

John D.

Well - I closed this thread for a while for a reason - and Loren edited his reply for a reason.

It's now closed. Again. For good.

John D.