Best Coil and Wires for a early 911?
03-16-2002, 06:07 PM
#1
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Best Coil and Wires for a early 911?
Hello all, I'm going to repace my coil and plug wires. I need to know what is the best coil and who makes the best plug wires. And if you could let me know where to purchase these items it would be greatly appreciated. I'd rather buy from an independent supplier. Not Performance or Tweeks.
Thanks.
Thanks.
03-16-2002, 07:18 PM
#2
RL Technical Advisor
[quote]Originally posted by FelDel:
<strong>Hello all, I'm going to repace my coil and plug wires. I need to know what is the best coil and who makes the best plug wires. And if you could let me know where to purchase these items it would be greatly appreciated. I'd rather buy from an independent supplier. Not Performance or Tweeks.
Thanks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hi:
You didn't say what year 911 you have but I'd simply offer that there is nothing better than the OEM Bosch coils for these cars when used with OEM ignitions.
For a 65-68 car without the factory Bosch CD system, you can use the Bosch Blue coil.
For a 69-83 911, you can use the 901.602.502.00 Bosch coil for these CD-equipped cars.
Regarding ignition wires, we prefer the 8.5mm Magnecor ones as they are far superior to the OEM Bosch or Beru sets. The Magnecor sets do not use the chronically troublesome Beru plug connectors so these will be the last wires you'll buy for quite some time.
Hope this helps,
<strong>Hello all, I'm going to repace my coil and plug wires. I need to know what is the best coil and who makes the best plug wires. And if you could let me know where to purchase these items it would be greatly appreciated. I'd rather buy from an independent supplier. Not Performance or Tweeks.
Thanks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hi:
You didn't say what year 911 you have but I'd simply offer that there is nothing better than the OEM Bosch coils for these cars when used with OEM ignitions.
For a 65-68 car without the factory Bosch CD system, you can use the Bosch Blue coil.
For a 69-83 911, you can use the 901.602.502.00 Bosch coil for these CD-equipped cars.
Regarding ignition wires, we prefer the 8.5mm Magnecor ones as they are far superior to the OEM Bosch or Beru sets. The Magnecor sets do not use the chronically troublesome Beru plug connectors so these will be the last wires you'll buy for quite some time.
Hope this helps,
03-17-2002, 08:01 PM
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Thanks for the imput Steve.
I'd like to add that my ignition system is not a Porsche factory unit.
It is a "SPEEDATRON" High Energy System. Mfg. by Jim Bergener at General Nucleonics Division/Tyco. In Pomona California. Originally installed in my 911 in 1978. Ever heard of this?
It works very well and I assume its still working as it did when it was new.
So I guess the Bosch coil you reccommended will work fine.
As for the wires, are the Magnecor as good or better than, lets say a Moroso or MSD wire. The Moroso and MSD wires have a good spiral core, which greatly reduces secondary indutcion voltages.
Also I'm thinking about installing a "Pertronix Ignitor" pointless systen in my distributor.
Exhaust question, if you have the time.
My present exhaust system is rusty. Inside and out. No holes though. I do know that when your headers are rusty inside you are losing horsepower. My car is street driven but I want to set up the exhaust for auto cross. Here in San Francisco you can run open headers at Candlestick if you want. This was confirmed today at the PCA Auto cross.
I'd like to purchase some new headers and I do not need heat exchangers.
My options are, after market equal length headers, 1 5/8" primaries, 2" collector 12" long, or a 18" megaphone open or a 12" inch megaphone entering a dual outlet Sport Muffler. Or just some factory heat exchangers, sheet metal removed, connected to a megaphone and the the megaphone enters a Sport Muffler.
I've seen many Headers for sale and some look better than others, equal length and workmanship. Especially where the primaries enter the collector.
My 1969 911 has very short gears.
My engine is as follows:
40mm Webbers with jet modifications
stock intake manifolds
"S" heads opened up a little on the intake ports.
exhaust ports not opened up
Solex cams
2.7 RS p/c
all on a 2.4 case.
with squirters
your help and time is GREATLY APPRECIATED.
Regards, Mark
I'd like to add that my ignition system is not a Porsche factory unit.
It is a "SPEEDATRON" High Energy System. Mfg. by Jim Bergener at General Nucleonics Division/Tyco. In Pomona California. Originally installed in my 911 in 1978. Ever heard of this?
It works very well and I assume its still working as it did when it was new.
So I guess the Bosch coil you reccommended will work fine.
As for the wires, are the Magnecor as good or better than, lets say a Moroso or MSD wire. The Moroso and MSD wires have a good spiral core, which greatly reduces secondary indutcion voltages.
Also I'm thinking about installing a "Pertronix Ignitor" pointless systen in my distributor.
Exhaust question, if you have the time.
My present exhaust system is rusty. Inside and out. No holes though. I do know that when your headers are rusty inside you are losing horsepower. My car is street driven but I want to set up the exhaust for auto cross. Here in San Francisco you can run open headers at Candlestick if you want. This was confirmed today at the PCA Auto cross.
I'd like to purchase some new headers and I do not need heat exchangers.
My options are, after market equal length headers, 1 5/8" primaries, 2" collector 12" long, or a 18" megaphone open or a 12" inch megaphone entering a dual outlet Sport Muffler. Or just some factory heat exchangers, sheet metal removed, connected to a megaphone and the the megaphone enters a Sport Muffler.
I've seen many Headers for sale and some look better than others, equal length and workmanship. Especially where the primaries enter the collector.
My 1969 911 has very short gears.
My engine is as follows:
40mm Webbers with jet modifications
stock intake manifolds
"S" heads opened up a little on the intake ports.
exhaust ports not opened up
Solex cams
2.7 RS p/c
all on a 2.4 case.
with squirters
your help and time is GREATLY APPRECIATED.
Regards, Mark
03-17-2002, 09:44 PM
#4
RL Technical Advisor
Hi Mark:
I've heard of Speedatron but I have no idea what coil imedance that it requires. LOL,... you're on your own there.
My preference, if the OEM unit fails, or for high-performance or race engines are the MSD-6 ignitions and their matching coils. Nothing better.
IMHO, the Magnecor wire sets are in a class of their own and I use nothing else, except for the 3.6 litre engines which Magnecor doesn't have a solution, yet.
The main reason to use the Magnecor wires is that their products replace the resistor-type Porsche spark plug connector. Everything else retains the OEM ones which are the main failure point. I also think that Magnecor's 8.5mm racing wires are of higher quality construction and superior design than the competition,....
The Pertronix ignitor is a fine idea.
On the subject of exhaust, this one is near & dear to my heart as I've spent many an hour on our engine dyno over the past 25 years with various 911 engines.
In a nutshell, 1 5/8" headers will work just fine on your solex-cammed engine. There are many header manufacturers and cheaper is not always better. I would strongly recommend having them coated with a ceramic-metallic heat barrier coating both inside and out, for temperature retention and corrosion resistance.
Megaphones are a bad idea. All they do is reduce low and mid-range power, without adding the like amount on the very top of the RPM range. Aside from noise, they have few redeeming features.
Here are a couple of rules of thumb on 911 performance exhaust systems:
1) 911 muffler systems need a crossover.
2) 911 exhaust systems need 15" minimum between the collector and the muffler. Sometimes this is a challenge to configure but its all doable,...
A good dual-in, dual-out Sport muffler will work just fine. An excellent racing muffler system may be fabricated with a Flowmaster Series 80 dual-in; dual out muffler and a bunch of U-bends.
Have fun,
I've heard of Speedatron but I have no idea what coil imedance that it requires. LOL,... you're on your own there.
My preference, if the OEM unit fails, or for high-performance or race engines are the MSD-6 ignitions and their matching coils. Nothing better.
IMHO, the Magnecor wire sets are in a class of their own and I use nothing else, except for the 3.6 litre engines which Magnecor doesn't have a solution, yet.
The main reason to use the Magnecor wires is that their products replace the resistor-type Porsche spark plug connector. Everything else retains the OEM ones which are the main failure point. I also think that Magnecor's 8.5mm racing wires are of higher quality construction and superior design than the competition,....
The Pertronix ignitor is a fine idea.
On the subject of exhaust, this one is near & dear to my heart as I've spent many an hour on our engine dyno over the past 25 years with various 911 engines.
In a nutshell, 1 5/8" headers will work just fine on your solex-cammed engine. There are many header manufacturers and cheaper is not always better. I would strongly recommend having them coated with a ceramic-metallic heat barrier coating both inside and out, for temperature retention and corrosion resistance.
Megaphones are a bad idea. All they do is reduce low and mid-range power, without adding the like amount on the very top of the RPM range. Aside from noise, they have few redeeming features.
Here are a couple of rules of thumb on 911 performance exhaust systems:
1) 911 muffler systems need a crossover.
2) 911 exhaust systems need 15" minimum between the collector and the muffler. Sometimes this is a challenge to configure but its all doable,...
A good dual-in, dual-out Sport muffler will work just fine. An excellent racing muffler system may be fabricated with a Flowmaster Series 80 dual-in; dual out muffler and a bunch of U-bends.
Have fun,
03-18-2002, 02:14 PM
#6
RL Technical Advisor
[quote]Originally posted by Sean Hamilton:
<strong>Steve, Is there anywhere I can see a pic of the "megaphone" exhaust mod, so as to avoid them.</strong><hr></blockquote>
G'day Sean:
You can see megaphones on any older Porsche race car such as the 906, 908, 2.8 RSR, or 3.0 RSR models. All of these cars (and others) had a 24" long tapered open megaphone bolted directly to the header collectors. This made good peak power and was matched to those race cam profiles, but is detrimental to making good mid-range torque and doesn't work with the cams that people use in street or dual-purpose cars.
As long as you use a Sport muffler based upon the OEM design or a race system that employs a cross-over, you will be just fine.
<strong>Steve, Is there anywhere I can see a pic of the "megaphone" exhaust mod, so as to avoid them.</strong><hr></blockquote>
G'day Sean:
You can see megaphones on any older Porsche race car such as the 906, 908, 2.8 RSR, or 3.0 RSR models. All of these cars (and others) had a 24" long tapered open megaphone bolted directly to the header collectors. This made good peak power and was matched to those race cam profiles, but is detrimental to making good mid-range torque and doesn't work with the cams that people use in street or dual-purpose cars.
As long as you use a Sport muffler based upon the OEM design or a race system that employs a cross-over, you will be just fine.
03-19-2002, 11:15 AM
#7
Instructor
Thanks Steve.
I had an opportunity to fit what they call here a "Rams Horn" exhaust. It's shape actually looks like it come off a sheep!
Bloody expensive and hand made locally, so popular that when one came come by - I grabbed it! Not really knowing why other than what I heard. You may be aware of it?
It's "claim" to fame is, that it is tuned to flatten out and deliver more power (20 hp) down lower in the rev range and make the Porsche more drivable. Nice note too.
I think I noticed a difference when it was first fitted but I was still too green then, and now I'm used to it, so I dunno.
I had a worry that you guys may have the same thing as "megaphones", but as you described - they do the opposite.
I had an opportunity to fit what they call here a "Rams Horn" exhaust. It's shape actually looks like it come off a sheep!
Bloody expensive and hand made locally, so popular that when one came come by - I grabbed it! Not really knowing why other than what I heard. You may be aware of it?
It's "claim" to fame is, that it is tuned to flatten out and deliver more power (20 hp) down lower in the rev range and make the Porsche more drivable. Nice note too.
I think I noticed a difference when it was first fitted but I was still too green then, and now I'm used to it, so I dunno.
I had a worry that you guys may have the same thing as "megaphones", but as you described - they do the opposite.
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03-19-2002, 11:23 PM
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Thanks Steve! I can't tell you how great this is. I ask a tech question and you answer it.
The way you share your wealth of information is to be applauded!
Hmmmm, a cross over pipe. I thought that the 911 exhaust system was a little short for this modification. Not because of the limited space but because of the short length of the collectors, hence, not needed. Anyway I will keep this in mind.
On another note, have your ever built and tested an equal pulse header system for a 911?
I've seen one in England. Six long primaries entering a large long collector exiting at the rear of the right wheel. It had a sound like no other Porsche. It sounded like one of those two litre Chevron sports racers.
Anyway I'd like to say "THANKS" again for you expert input. It's very kind of you.
Does RENNSPORT sell SSI"S, MSD Ignition and Magnecore wires?
The way you share your wealth of information is to be applauded!
Hmmmm, a cross over pipe. I thought that the 911 exhaust system was a little short for this modification. Not because of the limited space but because of the short length of the collectors, hence, not needed. Anyway I will keep this in mind.
On another note, have your ever built and tested an equal pulse header system for a 911?
I've seen one in England. Six long primaries entering a large long collector exiting at the rear of the right wheel. It had a sound like no other Porsche. It sounded like one of those two litre Chevron sports racers.
Anyway I'd like to say "THANKS" again for you expert input. It's very kind of you.
Does RENNSPORT sell SSI"S, MSD Ignition and Magnecore wires?
03-20-2002, 05:35 AM
#9
RL Technical Advisor
[quote]Originally posted by FelDel:
<strong>Thanks Steve! I can't tell you how great this is. I ask a tech question and you answer it.
The way you share your wealth of information is to be applauded!
Hmmmm, a cross over pipe. I thought that the 911 exhaust system was a little short for this modification. Not because of the limited space but because of the short length of the collectors, hence, not needed. Anyway I will keep this in mind.
On another note, have your ever built and tested an equal pulse header system for a 911?
I've seen one in England. Six long primaries entering a large long collector exiting at the rear of the right wheel. It had a sound like no other Porsche. It sounded like one of those two litre Chevron sports racers.
Anyway I'd like to say "THANKS" again for you expert input. It's very kind of you.
Does RENNSPORT sell SSI"S, MSD Ignition and Magnecore wires?</strong><hr></blockquote>
LOL,..Happy to help anytime,....I don't post EVERYTHING otherwise the people who pay us to build durable, high-HP race engines would not be happy.
One of these days, I'll put a lot of these sorts of things in a book to help folks build a reliable and fast 911 without wasting money on things that do not work.
Many years ago, when I had time on my hands, I did a lot of exhaust experimentation projects and I did something similar in concept. 911 engines are more sensitive to primary diameter than primary length and equal length becomes a bigger factor as valve timing events become more extreme,...
Currently, I'm doing some collector experiments using different designs, as I get time,......we'll see if that produces anything worthwhile.
FWIW, indeed we do offer those components!
Hope this helps,
<strong>Thanks Steve! I can't tell you how great this is. I ask a tech question and you answer it.
The way you share your wealth of information is to be applauded!
Hmmmm, a cross over pipe. I thought that the 911 exhaust system was a little short for this modification. Not because of the limited space but because of the short length of the collectors, hence, not needed. Anyway I will keep this in mind.
On another note, have your ever built and tested an equal pulse header system for a 911?
I've seen one in England. Six long primaries entering a large long collector exiting at the rear of the right wheel. It had a sound like no other Porsche. It sounded like one of those two litre Chevron sports racers.
Anyway I'd like to say "THANKS" again for you expert input. It's very kind of you.
Does RENNSPORT sell SSI"S, MSD Ignition and Magnecore wires?</strong><hr></blockquote>
LOL,..Happy to help anytime,....I don't post EVERYTHING otherwise the people who pay us to build durable, high-HP race engines would not be happy.
One of these days, I'll put a lot of these sorts of things in a book to help folks build a reliable and fast 911 without wasting money on things that do not work.
Many years ago, when I had time on my hands, I did a lot of exhaust experimentation projects and I did something similar in concept. 911 engines are more sensitive to primary diameter than primary length and equal length becomes a bigger factor as valve timing events become more extreme,...
Currently, I'm doing some collector experiments using different designs, as I get time,......we'll see if that produces anything worthwhile.
FWIW, indeed we do offer those components!
Hope this helps,
03-20-2002, 03:32 PM
#11
RL Technical Advisor
LOL,......nice car!
BTW, those are not megaphones, those are mufflers. I used to have a pair of those things here and they are simply some aluminum-cased mufflers bolted up to the collectors. Megaphones are not muffled and are an open-tapered pipe, 18" to 24" long that are bolted to the collectors.
Although those mufflers are light and sound very nice, they do not make anywhere near the power & torque that the factory-type Sport muffler does, much less a good race system.
One more observation,.....if that rear cooler is for the gearbox, I cannot imagine a worse place to install that due to the flood of engine heat that its exposed to and the exposure to rear-end impact damage.
Tranny coolers work very well when placed in an environment where the airflow is high and they can get cool air. I ususally install those under the engine lid on the left side. This utilizes the cold air flowing over the car and pulled in by the fan to make the cooler MUCH more efficient. The difference is amazing and its far less vulnerable to a rear-end "tap".
BTW, those are not megaphones, those are mufflers. I used to have a pair of those things here and they are simply some aluminum-cased mufflers bolted up to the collectors. Megaphones are not muffled and are an open-tapered pipe, 18" to 24" long that are bolted to the collectors.
Although those mufflers are light and sound very nice, they do not make anywhere near the power & torque that the factory-type Sport muffler does, much less a good race system.
One more observation,.....if that rear cooler is for the gearbox, I cannot imagine a worse place to install that due to the flood of engine heat that its exposed to and the exposure to rear-end impact damage.
Tranny coolers work very well when placed in an environment where the airflow is high and they can get cool air. I ususally install those under the engine lid on the left side. This utilizes the cold air flowing over the car and pulled in by the fan to make the cooler MUCH more efficient. The difference is amazing and its far less vulnerable to a rear-end "tap".
03-21-2002, 11:51 AM
#12
Instructor
Steve,
Thanks for the correction. Obviously didn't know what is the difference between megaphones and SuperTrapp-type mufflers.
I too thought the trans cooler. location was a strange choice. Like you said, no airflow and an abundance of heat back there! Looks nice.
I just saved the picture because there's some nice shiny things to look at underneath that car!
Thanks for the correction. Obviously didn't know what is the difference between megaphones and SuperTrapp-type mufflers.
I too thought the trans cooler. location was a strange choice. Like you said, no airflow and an abundance of heat back there! Looks nice.
I just saved the picture because there's some nice shiny things to look at underneath that car!
