JJ-WI

I recently aquired a 71 911 2.2T, everything is pretty much stock cept the seats, motor was shot, found one and put that in with a trans. Car is pretty much decent to perfect from front to back. interior to exterior and electrically sound.

Now here is the question, I'd like to work my way up until I get into something with electric windows/targa(perhaps)/Air Cond/etc...

I've also aquired a factory whale tale or turbo tail. I've aquired some fender flair kits too. I prefer that look over the non tail'd look. At first I was thinking of just swapping out the rear trunk lids with the one with the tail on it and doubleing up on the shocks, then change the steering wheel to a momo or such, and changing the mirrors from the single chrome one to a pair of decent mirrors. Have to do something with the interior door pockets, they are warped a tad and I am not liking the look.

Would I be devalueing the car if I did these updates from stock ??? Or would I be better off looking to sell the car as stock as possible and then purchasing something more modern ????????????

Or is there someone out there that prefers the "classics" and would want to perhaps do a swap ??


Preciate any input you might have.....

Thx

JJ

JackOlsen

Yes, you will devalue the car by updating it. The cost of bodywork and paint will probably make it cheaper to sell the one you've got and buy the one you want, even if you're a DIY-er.

In terms of value, I'd predict that the pre-74 cars will follow the 356 market, in the next decade or so. I think they'll be worth more than 74-94 cars, eventually, in spite of (obviously) much-milder performance numbers.

Then again, it's your car, and you should enjoy it. I modified the hell out of mine.

Revvin_911S

There have been a couple of similer topics discussed recently in this forum. I think that you will be happier with a newer model. It can be expensive and time consuming to "update" the classic look of the older cars, and they will also not hold their value as well. You will be better off buying a new car that already has the features you want, such as flared fenders and a tail. If you get a model where these features were stock, then that car will hold its value much better. You say that the '71 is close to perfect, if this is the case you should have no trouble selling it for a good price. Longhood cars in good shape are getting harder to find, so there will be a buyer for your car. There are also plenty of '78-'89 cars out there, all of these have flared fenders, and many can be found with tails. There are several other differences in the cars in these years, but visually they are all close. Good luck, and let us know what you decide to do.

JJ-WI

Ok I am hearing you, but here's another question, you said the long hoods in good shape should get a good price. What is a good price ?????

This is my 1st entry into owning a Porsche, always have wanted one, but I got tired on putzing on my kit car, so I sold that and ran into this deal.

What are cars of this vintage going for ??? and where is the best place to market them ? I've looked at ebay of course, but I don't like the numbers I am seeing.

Thanks in advance for whatever input you might have

JJ

Revvin_911S

Im not up on the early 911T market, but one in really clean shape....maybe12-15k. I dont really know, Im sure somebody on here has more accurate numbers.

"Then again, it's your car, and you should enjoy it. I modified the hell out of mine."

lol no kidding you modified the hell out of yours, but you did a WHOLE lot more then add a tail and change the mirrors. I think you have one of the best looking 911's Ive ever seen, and would love to have a similer car someday. Comparing what you did to your car, though, to just trying to "update" the look of an early, already in nice shape T, doesnt seem to be a fair comparison.

TaylorSea4

I gotta tell ya; nothing looks as good as an RS- treatment long hood car. Almost. Last month's 'Excellence' ran a piece about a 911 that looked GOOD. The owner went with a mish-mash of different elements from a lot of older Porsches. SC flares to give it the RS look, mini-lite wheels for a retro- racer look, 911R taillights, big bug eyed driving lights on the hood, hood cut-out gas filler, etc. The car was powered by a 3.0L SC engine in mild tune. Maybe 200, 210 ponies.

My point? A whale tail looks a bit outta place on anything less than an IROC/ RSR clone (or Jack's car), but taking a pre '73 car and doing period correct mods look a HELLUVA lot better. Seeing that car made me REALLY want an R clone with flares and no tail at all. Which, incidently, Porsche did with the ST. Dump the MFI for some PMO 46mm carbs, toss in some S cams, uncork the exhaust, and you'd be the bee's knees, man. Hell, just do a softer 911R clone without the flares. Surely something like that would be worth more than a whale tail'd "update" car. If not just more original (note- I would never, EVER knock an RS clone or something like Jack's beast!).

JackOlsen

A great-condition, unrestored, low-miles early T will sell for as much as $25,000, in the current market. Drivers sell for less, but 15K is cheap for a good-condition T.

There are a lot of cars out there that are not in very good condition. There are also a lot of updated cars out there. They make up the $500 to $10,000 bracket.

If you like the looks of the impact bumper cars, then you should sell the T and pick one up. A good ebay ad will bring you top dollar in the current market. A bad ebay ad will generate a collective shrug from the marketplace.

Here are some pictures of early cars, to give you an idea of how they can be modified in a way that will (at least in the case of a T) increase, rather than decrease, their value.

Sorry for choking up the bandwitdh.

Stock-ish, and 911R:







Less stock -- 911 ST, RS and RSR:

JackOlsen

Here's the minilight car that was just in Excellence:




And here's my RSR clone (photo by Zach Mayne):

JJ-WI

Hmmm thanks for the input so far, I am not sure if my car is "pure" enough to go as a collector car, the ODO was bad, I had that fixed, shows 85kish on it now. The engine I put in, is not "stock" it's got weber's, E cams, S pistons and soon to have the tensioner update. (very much zoom to this motor) It has 944 seats in it, the pockets are in tough shape and need work. Interior was totally replaced and is looking nice, it has an S dash (top has some cracks on it), aftermarket radio, the original AC was removed from the car, has the fuchs wheels, dual batteries, fuch spare, replaced the front hood shocks on it, put in halogen vs sealed beam bulbs (had some left over from the vw kit car project, they just plopped right in). momo shifter **** on it now, dont have original, have original steering wheel, and an aftermarket on it now. Outside of the car is pretty good, having some touch up done, no rust or anything, all problem areas (rust) are ok. So the car is sort of "close" to stock at the moment. The tail I can add just by swappin rear lids, the tail I got has the rear lid on it already, just have to paint to match car 1st. Flares, I don't have to do, I may end up selling the set since it's more work than I want to put into it body wise.


So I am still in that on the fence mode.....

sigh....

Bob D

I would not put a late model "Whale Tail" on an early stock body car. It looks completely out of place and will affect the handling. I personally think they look out of place on stock fendered SC's. Each to his own but you will notice that none of the pictured, beautiful cars above have any thing larger than the original "Duck Tail". As it should be IMHO. If you want a lter model car let me know I might come over to WI and deal with you on the "T".
Bob D.

TaylorSea4

JJ, look at that curvy, sexy *** on Jack's car (hey, if you're gonna personify a car, might as well make it a woman, eh?). A whale tail is gonna look awful lonely sitting out back on a narrow body, non-flared car. Agreed as said above, duck tail or no tail.

Jack, those pics are AWESOME. I just threw wood over those ST clones. Hubba hubba...

nine64

i say go with what jack said, if you want to mod it then do a period mod, like the picture jack posted. Pick one have a go at it. They are great.. hope to do one like that one day.
please don't put whale tale on it.
have fun! BTW, post a picture of your car!

JJ-WI

OK, you guys wanted pics, no I did not have time to clean the beast, am still puttering with it, so it's a tad dirty yet.. but here is a link to where I have pics avail to look at.

http://jj.tauniverse.com/71_911T/

I would be seriously interested in looking to swap out to a car that is more of my taste and let someone else do the glory and do this car justice. If you have interest in something like that let me know. I am looking for something with the tail of course, or I can provide my own, have that and a trunk lid, wife would love elec windows, roof or targa. I am looking for something to be used as a daily driver during summer, NOT a show car. I want something that is mechanically in decent shape

The pics do not show some of the stock items I have still, such as the steering wheel etc. And dont scream about the Fram filter, it's going to be changed out after we do the next tune up and oil change, just have to wait until it's warm enuf to do the final tune up on it. I am also have some paint work done on the car to touch up some chips etc to bring it up to a almost perfect paint job.

I hear you loud and clear that I should not update this car to a more modern look, everything I've done so far is bolt on and would be easy to put back to stock, I have not chosen yet to do the wing on it, dunno, will have to paint that to match.

So yes, now you get to go peek

Engine was done by Stromski Racing, was not a fresh rebuild, but it's a solid runner, E cams, S pistons, and the tensioner kitis headed my way I am hoping soon.

I've fixed the speedo (odo was broke), it has a great clutch on it, almost like new, has new carpets and alot of metal work was done prior to my owning the car, battery boxes are in good shape, Replaced all of the lights in the dash. VDO clock seems to be a tad slow, had to put in a new ignition control module since the bosch one took a poop.

I dunno, perhaps you guys can give me some options, I would much rather prefer to swap into something more my taste vs sell this and then go lookin.

So go peek at the pics if u like, warning, they are 300-400k in size

JJ

J.G. Rausa

I think a big advantage in updating a '69-'73 is weight savings. After adding a rollbar, larger brakes, oil cooler, flares, 7x8 -16, I still weighed in at 2250, near stock weight for the original '70 T. Any later model with these additions is going to weigh more.

I updated the interior with RS carpeting (removing the back seats), leather RS door panels, and a pair of Sparco seats. I enjoyed making the changes to the car in an effort to personalize it to my tastes and suit my competitive objectives; I time trial and hillclimb.

As to value, I recognize I will never get out of my car what I have in it, in monetary return. However, for grins, it can't be beat. My priority was not to retain value, but enjoy the drive.

If your car has strong mechanicals and no structural rust, I say give the update a shot. I would suggest chosing a body style and mods that suit your taste by looking at later models that appeal to you. Mine happens to look like a '75 Euro Carrera (tail is a fiberglass replica, small rear bumperettes and amber lenses help complete the Euro look).

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

Regards,
Joe Rausa
Lititz, PA

JCP911S

Car looks pretty clean in pics. Body is most important thing. If there is no rust and the motor is strong, you have a winner here. Your car will never command top dollar... that is for very origional totally OEM cars. But any solid small bumper car will be worth $10-15K and will likely hold value or appreciate.

Just my personal taste but DO NOT "update" your car. That will totally ruin its value. There is a hot market for small bumper cars and a good market for later cars. The market for small bumper cars that have been updated with non-period parts is comparable to the marker for suits with non-matching pants. in other words... none. If you want a later car (like and SC) just buy one. You can probaly buy one in comparable condition for what you could sell your car for.

If you want to spend money on your car, either keep it like it is and clean it up, or do a "period" treatment on it like the pictures Jack Olsen sent. There is a great following for these R-Gruppe treatments... absorb yourself in the history of the early 911 race cars and go from there.

If you want to keep the car and money is tight, you can really do alot to elevate your car visually by fixing up the interior. A set of good RS carpets and door panels are pretty cheap and will do wonders for less than $1K. If budget permits, ditch the late model seats and get some period ones from Vintage Seats (see the R-Gruppe website). Also, looks like the car has dark window tint... get rid of it yesterday.

As you can see, I love spending other people's money, and telling them how to live their own lives... have fun