SC vs. Carrera
02-04-2005, 11:27 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by d993
I agree..........
You mean the older, uglier headlights make it much better looking, right?
Anything else?
The CIS fuel distributor has "directional beauty", with it's six stainless steel fuel lines!
Gotta love the "beautiful buzzing" from the CIS.
Oh.........And no, the 3.2 Carrera is NOT heavier than a SC. Both Coupes (with A/C) weight the same 2750lbs.
You mean the older, uglier headlights make it much better looking, right?
Anything else?
The CIS fuel distributor has "directional beauty", with it's six stainless steel fuel lines!
Gotta love the "beautiful buzzing" from the CIS.
Oh.........And no, the 3.2 Carrera is NOT heavier than a SC. Both Coupes (with A/C) weight the same 2750lbs.
Hmmm...
Edward
02-05-2005, 12:30 AM
#33
Rennlist Junkie Forever
I'll have to chime in...
The US SCs are much lighter than the US Carreras. I just weighed my '82 SC with with a full steel body, full interior (nothing deleted except the tool kit, the spare, the jack) with a light weight battery, PMO conversion, SSI's (which are no lighter than the stock exaust), and SSI cams (same weight as stock) but including electric 996 seats (heavier than stock SC seats). 2460lbs on a certified scale with 1/2 tank of fuel. Dynoed at 200RWHP (but that will increase next week with some dyno tuning). I should be able to squeeze out at least 210RWHP)
The carrrera brakes are nothing to write home about. Almost as bad as the SC's brakes. Both can use a substantial upgrade (which is in the works for my SC).
The Carrera suspension is the same as the SC (yes it gets stifferin the rear in the later years... but it also gets much heavier in the later years... so it's on offset issue.
The later Carrera's have larger A/C vents... a definite plus (that's why I upgraded my SC!!!!!)
In the end.. there's not really much difference between two. Stock.. the Carrera in Euro form is definitely better. In US trim... the margin is almost nil due to the weight difference.
Yes the SC's that have old studs tend to break them. Heck... they're well over 20 years old. But, I've also seen a few Carrera's with broken head studs as well. Additionally... the Carrera's have a valve guide issue that the SC's don't have.
TonyG
www.tonygarcia.org/911SC
'84 Euro SunRoof Delete Carrera (231HP crank)
'82 US SC (200RWHP... about 235HP crank) (restoration project almost done)
The US SCs are much lighter than the US Carreras. I just weighed my '82 SC with with a full steel body, full interior (nothing deleted except the tool kit, the spare, the jack) with a light weight battery, PMO conversion, SSI's (which are no lighter than the stock exaust), and SSI cams (same weight as stock) but including electric 996 seats (heavier than stock SC seats). 2460lbs on a certified scale with 1/2 tank of fuel. Dynoed at 200RWHP (but that will increase next week with some dyno tuning). I should be able to squeeze out at least 210RWHP)
The carrrera brakes are nothing to write home about. Almost as bad as the SC's brakes. Both can use a substantial upgrade (which is in the works for my SC).
The Carrera suspension is the same as the SC (yes it gets stifferin the rear in the later years... but it also gets much heavier in the later years... so it's on offset issue.
The later Carrera's have larger A/C vents... a definite plus (that's why I upgraded my SC!!!!!)
In the end.. there's not really much difference between two. Stock.. the Carrera in Euro form is definitely better. In US trim... the margin is almost nil due to the weight difference.
Yes the SC's that have old studs tend to break them. Heck... they're well over 20 years old. But, I've also seen a few Carrera's with broken head studs as well. Additionally... the Carrera's have a valve guide issue that the SC's don't have.
TonyG
www.tonygarcia.org/911SC
'84 Euro SunRoof Delete Carrera (231HP crank)
'82 US SC (200RWHP... about 235HP crank) (restoration project almost done)
02-05-2005, 10:54 AM
#34
Technical Specialist
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Folks, please keep the discussion, even vaguely, on the topic at hand. I deleted a number of posts with discussion that simply didn't belong here.
Thanks!
Thanks!
02-05-2005, 01:09 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
The SC/Carrera weight discussion is certainly interesting. I have located the following specs in Porsche publications: USA SC ('78/79) = 1160 kg (2552 lbs), and USA SC ('80 >) = 1250 kg (2750 lbs). One must assume because A/C (about 65 lbs) was optional in '78/79, and sunroof (about 25 lbs) was optional in all years these figures do not include either. All USA SCs were fitted with catalytic converters, but the '80 > models had the lambda system (less that 5 lbs). The '78/79 cars may have been weighed with manual windows, while '80 > cars had power windows (weight unknown), but the approx. remaining 100 lbs of gain are hard to explain. Here's where it gets interesting. Published weight for the 3.2 Carrera is 1210 kg (2662 lbs) - hmmm. Unfortunately, that weight had no clarification regarding if it's an ROW car, or a USA car. I think that all 3.2 cars had A/C and catalytic converters, add a sunroof and you're still more than 50 lbs lighter than an '80 > SC! If the published Carrera weight was without A/C, guess what? Add another 65 lbs, and you're almost exactly the same weight as an '80 > SC (2750 lbs)!
When I ran my PCA Club Race car in '97 ('81 SC coupe, no sunroof) I wanted to get the car down to 2560 lbs. Out came the incredibly heavy factory sport seats, in went a roll cage. I stripped the trunk, removed the A/C, removed the rear seats, replaced the deck lid with a super-light wing, replaced the front bumper & valance with a fiberglas RSR assembly, reduced the size of the battery, used hollow torsion bars, removed the stereo & speakers, and, whew, just made 2560 lbs, with two gallons of fuel. That supports the published weight of 2750 lbs. Yes, I could have done a fuel cell & lexan, for no other reason than to lower the center of gravity with ballast, but that's as far as I took that car.
One interesting note, the Porsche publication that lists the Carrera weight at 1210 kg (2662 lbs) also lists the Turbo-look as 1260 kg (only 22 lbs more than an '80 > USA SC!). Again, hmmm... What we need is to have a bunch of people find accurate public scales (truck stops?), drive their car until the reserve light kicks on, and weigh them! Interesting, indeed.
Pete
When I ran my PCA Club Race car in '97 ('81 SC coupe, no sunroof) I wanted to get the car down to 2560 lbs. Out came the incredibly heavy factory sport seats, in went a roll cage. I stripped the trunk, removed the A/C, removed the rear seats, replaced the deck lid with a super-light wing, replaced the front bumper & valance with a fiberglas RSR assembly, reduced the size of the battery, used hollow torsion bars, removed the stereo & speakers, and, whew, just made 2560 lbs, with two gallons of fuel. That supports the published weight of 2750 lbs. Yes, I could have done a fuel cell & lexan, for no other reason than to lower the center of gravity with ballast, but that's as far as I took that car.
One interesting note, the Porsche publication that lists the Carrera weight at 1210 kg (2662 lbs) also lists the Turbo-look as 1260 kg (only 22 lbs more than an '80 > USA SC!). Again, hmmm... What we need is to have a bunch of people find accurate public scales (truck stops?), drive their car until the reserve light kicks on, and weigh them! Interesting, indeed.
Pete
Last edited by Peter Zimmermann; 02-05-2005 at 02:42 PM.
02-05-2005, 06:37 PM
#37
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I don't know if an apology is in order or not, I started this food fight and while it has been informative and entertaining I have to ask...Can't we all just get along? Mr. Zimmerman..as you may have surmized I have read your book cover to cover and am looking forward to purchasing the eighth REVISED edition, didn't mean to cause any embarrassment. I've wanted a 911 for a long time, hope I can handle the passion they evoke.
02-05-2005, 07:58 PM
#38
Stark,
No need for an apology, the SC/Carrera comparison is a debate that will happen as long as these cars are running. For most people, it's just good natured fun and fun poking. Truth is, neither car is better than the other, they're just different. Both have negatives and both have positives. It would be impossible for anyone to tell you which is better - you'll have to drive both and see which fits your style/personality. With you $14-16K budget, you'll be able to find a really nice 78-86 911. As others have posted, find the best cared for example in your price range and you won't ever look back. Use this and the other Porsche forums to educate yourself before you make a desicion. All the best - you'll be wearing a huge smile when you find the right one!
Mark
No need for an apology, the SC/Carrera comparison is a debate that will happen as long as these cars are running. For most people, it's just good natured fun and fun poking. Truth is, neither car is better than the other, they're just different. Both have negatives and both have positives. It would be impossible for anyone to tell you which is better - you'll have to drive both and see which fits your style/personality. With you $14-16K budget, you'll be able to find a really nice 78-86 911. As others have posted, find the best cared for example in your price range and you won't ever look back. Use this and the other Porsche forums to educate yourself before you make a desicion. All the best - you'll be wearing a huge smile when you find the right one!
Mark
02-06-2005, 01:13 AM
#43
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I'm not sure, Randy - Carrera body parts don't rust so readily - makes it more difficult for the longhoods to become lighter by the grace of chemistry. We know most Carrera drivetrain components are heavier. Peter Z makes a very good point (as usual) about comparing "official factory weight" across model years, markets (did ROW cars have 5 mph bumper rams?), SC options that became standard Carrera & etc. There might be subtlties known only to the production managers of the time.
It appears that modified and tuned 911s are becoming outlaw-like every day, with reference to Porsche Standards (performance / reliability / longevity / safety / thoroughness). We seem to accept this as kosher - as long as the parts are Porsche, supplied by authorized Porsche vendors of-the-time, factory competition parts, or niche upgrades executed to the Standard.
Reflecting on the 356 evolution, it appears that there are 2 "golden eras" for the 911; 69-73 & 78-89. These models will be the donor cores that enthusiasts will build up & tune to their taste, borrowing from ALL 911 themes. Aircooled 3.8 in a '71T w/ coilover suspenion & Big Reds, '89 AC, etc. Ultimately, you just want a straight rustfree chassis & you can build any kind of 911 you want, and all interpretations (arguably) authentic Porsche (if not Original)!
Hold onto those chassis for your grandchildren...
It appears that modified and tuned 911s are becoming outlaw-like every day, with reference to Porsche Standards (performance / reliability / longevity / safety / thoroughness). We seem to accept this as kosher - as long as the parts are Porsche, supplied by authorized Porsche vendors of-the-time, factory competition parts, or niche upgrades executed to the Standard.
Reflecting on the 356 evolution, it appears that there are 2 "golden eras" for the 911; 69-73 & 78-89. These models will be the donor cores that enthusiasts will build up & tune to their taste, borrowing from ALL 911 themes. Aircooled 3.8 in a '71T w/ coilover suspenion & Big Reds, '89 AC, etc. Ultimately, you just want a straight rustfree chassis & you can build any kind of 911 you want, and all interpretations (arguably) authentic Porsche (if not Original)!
Hold onto those chassis for your grandchildren...
