coldstart

I have a problem. I am in love with a 1976 911S Targa. The car appears to be in great shape to the layman (new paint, no rust on top or bottom, great interior, great exterior) but it is mystery (little or no records). I want this car and it is very affordable. My questions are:

1. What is this front stabilizer setup (see pic)? Sign that the car is not structurally sound? Anyone ever seen a setup like this?

2. There are limited maintenance records. I do plan on getting a PPI. How concerned should I be?

3. Engine concerns: What should I be looking for prior to buying or should I leave that to the mechanic doing the inspection? Will it need a rebuild (currently at 145K)

3. If everything checks out okay on the PPI, what type of maintenance costs should I expect?

4. I love the idea of a targa top but I have heard that replacement/maintenance for them is high . Bad idea to get this car?

I am likely going to get this car BUT I want to be super-careful before buying it as a Porsche rookie. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Jay H

Cold Start:

I can help on a few of your questions.

1) It is common to add these front strut braces (front stabilizer bars as you mention) to 911's. Helps with adding a bit of rigidity.

2) Maintenance records are helpful, but should not be a deal breaker. If there are no records, a thorough PPI is definitely worth the money. The car is getting up there in age and miles, so some of the earlier records on the car (if there were any) might not be useful anymore. You really want to know the cars condition now, hence the need for a PPI to determine what major problems there could be on the car. Full records help determine what has been replaced on down the line, but as a car ages, I feel that, for example, if the clutch was replaced in 1983, that record doesn't really matter anymore since you may need a new clutch anyway after all these miles and years.

3) I'll let the 2.7 experts answer that question. The 2.7 motor has faults, but it is possible at this mileage that the motor has had some major work done on it to update it to a more reliable motor. This aspect definitely needs to be researched on this car.

4) Depending on the car's condition, this car could be relatively trouble free, or a money pit in disguise under that fresh paint. $1000 to $1500 to $2500 per year would be reasonable estimates on what it will cost you to run it. This also depends on what you want to use the car for. Daily driving will cost more than limited driving on Sunday afternoon type use. Many times you will go months without spending a dime, other times you'll end up with a $3000 repair for some failed system or needed maintenance.

4a) Why was this car painted? Age? Accident damage? Vandelism? Yes, it's old, but Porsche paint is very robust (and thick), so repaints need a bit of scrutiny.

4b) No 911 is cheap. They are all $20,000 cars. Either you pay up front for a solid car, or you pay later on down the road to fix up a car you got on the cheap. Defered maintenance cars are always costly to 'bring up to snuff".

5) Targa Tops. Targas are just fine with good seals and, while never owning one, others love the top down feel with a solid rear window. If you like the Targa, keep investigating it. I'll let the Targa experts give their opinions on this.

Good Luck,

Jay
90 964

M491

First timer - I'd pass on a '76. Just way too many issues to deal with. Starting with the engine. Yeah, they can be good if a lot of money has been thrown at it, and that money was used correctly. The vast majority of the time that is not the case. When there are no records, you can almost be sure that's not the case.

I don't like the looks of the undercarriage. Looks like a quick and cheap respray to cover up a bunch of crap. Not impressive.

I think you'd be much, much, much, much better served sticking with an example from the more solid and more bulletproof later cars, like an SC. You're chances of ending up with a better car that costs less over the long run are much greater with an SC.

Don't fall in love with the first car you see. IMO, let this one go.

And, whatever you do, don't buy a 70s or early 80s 911 without a good PPI by a knowledgable shop that MUST include a compression and/or leakdown test, and the removal of the valve covers to check for broken head studs.

redidrum

I suggest passing too. My 82' SC has been cheap to maintain and bulletproof. Try to secure a good local mechanic in case you get in a job that you can't work. I found my mechanic first that had 34 years experience. Records issue scares me. Good Luck.

SandyI

I agree. Keep looking.

JackOlsen

The strut brace is a cambermeister. It's a good design, but it's very heavy.

The 76 has a lot of issues, but can be a good value if priced accordingly.

On that car, I wouldn't move a step forward without two PPI's: one by a Porsche mechanic and one by a body shop. Rust is virtually guaranteed, and it could make this car financially unviable, even if you got it for free.

If by good price, you mean under 5K, then it might be a bargain. Otherwise...

pjc

I have a '76 - 2.7 and I would recommend that without a decent maintenance/restoration history walk away. The cost of a good body restor (a quick paint job is insufficient at this age) is in excess of $15000 in the UK and I can't image it is any cheaper in the US (this assumes no major welding, new panels etc. - Targas are worse than coupes because of the extra stress imposed on the chassis. At that mileage an engine rebuild (in the US?) is almost certainly required - the US 2.7 suffers from high engine temperatures (to comply with emissions regulations) which left them vulnerable to a number of failures, all of which can be remedied (see Wayne Dempsey book on rebuilding 911 engines for details). It can mean new pistons and barrels as well because the Alusil cylinders cannot be honed therefore if the bores are worn the solution is to throw them away and start again.

If you are set on this car then get a PPI from a Porsche specialist who knows what to look for on older Porsches - a general spanner man will not have sufficient knowledge.

I agree with the other guys - unless the car is on offer for peanuts I'd walk away, there are plenty out there that have been well maintained and have the records to prove it.

PJC

coldstart

Guys, thank you for the advice on the 1976 911. The resident office Porsche expert said the same thing - walk. He advised me not to buy pre-1978 and that a 1987-1991 911 is recommended. I am likely going to walk away from that deal, even though the car looked and ran really sweet.

Other Options

The other, and more expensive, options I have looked at are a 1985 Porsche 911 Targa (1st pic) and 1988 Porsche 911 Targa (2nd pic).

The 1985 911 (as seen in the pic) has updated rims and brakes and is in great shape. However, it is much more expensive ($5-8K more than the 1988 which is $5K more than the 1976) The 1985 911 has had only had two owners (an exec of a mjaor company is selling it) and it has complete records. I am unsure if that is an original colour.

I do not know much about the 1988 but I am not crazy about the look (the colour, the wheels) but that is changeable.

I am not in a rush to buy but there are a lot of good quality, reasonably priced cars currently on the local market compared to last spring/summer. Any advice to the rookie is appreciated.

jet911

Well I'll disagree with your resident office Porsche expert on a couple of points. '78 - '83 SCs and '84 - '89 are solid cars (some believe they are the best ever made by Porsche as a true, raw sports car). In fact I would stay away from '90 & '91s. They have their own set of issues. You need to do more homework on your own so you don't get "taken" and so you get the correct car for you. You need to drive a bunch to see the differences between the different years as each year there were improvements. There are several sources to gain more knowledge. Pick up a Bruce Anderson's Performace handbook, it's a great resource and talks through all models. Excellence Magazine is a good source as well, get some back issues as they just recently have talked about SCs and Carreras. There are articles on this web site and the Pelican web site that will educate you. IMO, if you do work yourself, the '78 - '89s are the best. They are reliable, fun, fairly resonable in price if you are not in a hurray, IMO have depreciated about as far as they will go and are easy to work on. Get the most recent model that is in the best condition that you can afford and keep a 10% reserve for repairs that will be there during the first year of ownership.

Keep the board updated, ask questions and you will get good advice. ALWAYS get a PPI prior to any purchase.

Good luck!

coldstart

Repost with the pics! I am going to see the 1988 911 Targa tomorrow.

Guys, thank you for the advice on the 1976 911. The resident office Porsche expert said the same thing - walk. He advised me not to buy pre-1978 and that a 1987-1991 911 is recommended. I am likely going to walk away from that deal, even though the car looked and ran really sweet.

Other Options

The other, and more expensive, options I have looked at are a 1985 Porsche 911 Targa (1st pic) and 1988 Porsche 911 Targa (2nd pic).

The 1985 911 (as seen in the pic) has updated rims and brakes and is in great shape. However, it is much more expensive ($5-8K more than the 1988 which is $5K more than the 1976) The 1985 911 has had only had two owners (an exec of a mjaor company is selling it) and it has complete records. I am unsure if that is an original colour.

I do not know much about the 1988 but I am not crazy about the look (the colour, the wheels) but that is changeable.

I am not in a rush to buy but there are a lot of good quality, reasonably priced cars currently on the local market compared to last spring/summer. Any advice to the rookie is appreciated.