Transmission oil levels
12-23-2004, 09:44 AM
#1
Track Day
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Transmission oil levels
I have a really simple question. I took my 1967 911S out for a drive today and I noticed that by the end of the drive (45min in 95 degrees) with stop-start traffic, that my transmission was dropping a little oil. To give you some background, I have had this car stored for 12 years while I have oveseas working. Back then I had some work done on the car.
Anyway, the question is how do I check my transmission oil levels? I feel a fool for asking this but my owners manual doesn't give any indication that such is possible. I would like to check the levels before I take it out again, so that I don't screw up anything.
Fred
Anyway, the question is how do I check my transmission oil levels? I feel a fool for asking this but my owners manual doesn't give any indication that such is possible. I would like to check the levels before I take it out again, so that I don't screw up anything.
Fred
12-23-2004, 10:23 AM
#2
Race Car
You fill it with the upper fill hole, which on your car (I'm pretty sure) is on the driver's side of the transaxle case. It's full when it's up to the level of that hole.
As such, it's very difficult to overfill. But there is a breather vent on top, which can send out some fluid.
As such, it's very difficult to overfill. But there is a breather vent on top, which can send out some fluid.
12-23-2004, 07:45 PM
#3
'stored for 12 years'
You don't want to check the levels - you want to flush out all trans. oil, engine oil and brake fluid and put in new fluids.
Buy new tires as they get ahrd and useless after about 6 years.
Replace the rubber brake hoses.
Then drive - I'd replace the engine/trans oils again after 1,000 miles or so.
You don't want to check the levels - you want to flush out all trans. oil, engine oil and brake fluid and put in new fluids.
Buy new tires as they get ahrd and useless after about 6 years.
Replace the rubber brake hoses.
Then drive - I'd replace the engine/trans oils again after 1,000 miles or so.
12-23-2004, 09:56 PM
#4
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Thanks for the replies. All the old oil has been flushed out and the gas and oil tanks removed and cleaned. I also had the engine dropped and check over. All new oil has been put in. Its just that having the car not running for 14 years (includes two years of frame up restoration and engine rebuild), the gaskets, etc haven't seen much lubrication. After the engine was rebuilt it was never fired up as at that point I knew I was going to store it.
Yesterday, it seemed that oil was leaking from the transmission casing (oil temp on engine had got up to 211-212) and this was getting on the heat exchanges, which caused some smoke. My mechanic says that he doesn't think the engine should get over 215 MAX! (is this right?, as I had seen temps of 220 in the FAQ mentioned).
Also, my mechanic believes that the engine and transmission seals should leak some oil with the first few drives (once the temps have risen and since the car has sat for so long) and then either "reseal" or fail, which would require more engine work. Actually, though, the oil looked to be coming from the transmission casing and not the engine.
I, also, wondered if anyone had gone through this experience before. And also, if there was an easy way to checking the oil (transmission) levels - which it appears to not be.
Oh, and Randy, I am looking at changing the tires. The thing is that I have 195/65 P6's on 4.5 inch tires and I think I am going to drop that to 185 as I have been advised that 195 is just too much rubber for such small rims. Do you agree?
thanks again
Fred.
Yesterday, it seemed that oil was leaking from the transmission casing (oil temp on engine had got up to 211-212) and this was getting on the heat exchanges, which caused some smoke. My mechanic says that he doesn't think the engine should get over 215 MAX! (is this right?, as I had seen temps of 220 in the FAQ mentioned).
Also, my mechanic believes that the engine and transmission seals should leak some oil with the first few drives (once the temps have risen and since the car has sat for so long) and then either "reseal" or fail, which would require more engine work. Actually, though, the oil looked to be coming from the transmission casing and not the engine.
I, also, wondered if anyone had gone through this experience before. And also, if there was an easy way to checking the oil (transmission) levels - which it appears to not be.
Oh, and Randy, I am looking at changing the tires. The thing is that I have 195/65 P6's on 4.5 inch tires and I think I am going to drop that to 185 as I have been advised that 195 is just too much rubber for such small rims. Do you agree?
thanks again
Fred.
12-23-2004, 10:09 PM
#5
I don't know about the 4.5" wheels. What does it say in the owner's manual.
220 wouldn't worry me.
The mechanic is right - my engine healed 3 oil leaks just from driving it around. Yours may not completley stop but is bound to improve. Use brake cleaner sprays to clean up the drips after 2 weeks and see what re-appears where.
Don't forget the brake hoses.
220 wouldn't worry me.
The mechanic is right - my engine healed 3 oil leaks just from driving it around. Yours may not completley stop but is bound to improve. Use brake cleaner sprays to clean up the drips after 2 weeks and see what re-appears where.
Don't forget the brake hoses.
12-23-2004, 10:34 PM
#6
RL Technical Advisor
Hi Fred:
With all due respect to Randy, 220 deg F in a 2.0 litre worries me plenty. That motor is running too hot for a 160 HP 2.0 unless its the middle of summer and on a track. Personally, I would be removing the fan housing and looking at the top of the oil cooler to make sure that its completely clear of any foreign matter or dirt-grease--oil, etc. I've seen them totally impacted by mouse nests and clogged with oil-soaked dirt.
Jack told you how check the oil level correctly (make sure the car is level when you do that).
As you already know, oil seals & gaskets dry out from sitting a long time, especially old ones. I would spend some time investigating the source of any leaks. In many cases, the transmission input shaft seal, the rear main crank seal, the oil temp sending unit, the breather housing, and the oil cooler seals can leak. All of these can drip oil on the clutch and pressure plate causing it to slip & be ruined.
Yessir, 195-width tires are not ideal for the 4.5" Fuchs wheels you have but you could install a set of 6" Fuchs with a tad more negative camber. This really helps tame these "lively" cars.
With all due respect to Randy, 220 deg F in a 2.0 litre worries me plenty. That motor is running too hot for a 160 HP 2.0 unless its the middle of summer and on a track. Personally, I would be removing the fan housing and looking at the top of the oil cooler to make sure that its completely clear of any foreign matter or dirt-grease--oil, etc. I've seen them totally impacted by mouse nests and clogged with oil-soaked dirt.
Jack told you how check the oil level correctly (make sure the car is level when you do that).
As you already know, oil seals & gaskets dry out from sitting a long time, especially old ones. I would spend some time investigating the source of any leaks. In many cases, the transmission input shaft seal, the rear main crank seal, the oil temp sending unit, the breather housing, and the oil cooler seals can leak. All of these can drip oil on the clutch and pressure plate causing it to slip & be ruined.
Yessir, 195-width tires are not ideal for the 4.5" Fuchs wheels you have but you could install a set of 6" Fuchs with a tad more negative camber. This really helps tame these "lively" cars.
12-24-2004, 01:16 AM
#7
"oil temp on engine had got up to 211-212" and the FAQ mentions temps. up to 220 [oF].
So, he's talking about brief excursions I think. He doesn't state what season (but the rest of the text suggests it is right now). So, my take is you probably don't have to worry. Either I or Steve might be misreading your post - that won't hurt us any, but it could hurt you a lot. You might want to repost with the exact info on the engine temps that you are seeing in your car, when, for how long, and more. It sure won't hurt to take Steve's advice anyway. There are previous posts on how to get mouse nests and debris out (start with a shop vac). Also, how oily is the motor in general?
And, Steve, suppose his motor is running at an unusually high temp. for a 2L. What does that imply? Just a lot of wear? And, suppose it's unusually hot for a 2L but not reallly hot as in doing damage to the engine (as in OK under the BA criteria igiven in his book)?
So, he's talking about brief excursions I think. He doesn't state what season (but the rest of the text suggests it is right now). So, my take is you probably don't have to worry. Either I or Steve might be misreading your post - that won't hurt us any, but it could hurt you a lot. You might want to repost with the exact info on the engine temps that you are seeing in your car, when, for how long, and more. It sure won't hurt to take Steve's advice anyway. There are previous posts on how to get mouse nests and debris out (start with a shop vac). Also, how oily is the motor in general?
And, Steve, suppose his motor is running at an unusually high temp. for a 2L. What does that imply? Just a lot of wear? And, suppose it's unusually hot for a 2L but not reallly hot as in doing damage to the engine (as in OK under the BA criteria igiven in his book)?
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12-24-2004, 10:03 AM
#8
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I am in Australia, so its summer here. The temp was 95 deg F in the shade. I was driving for about 45 min and it consisted of a lot of stop and start in traffic. The engine isn't really that oily as I have only driven it a few times. I am pretty sure there is no debris as I had the engine dropped out the other month and everything was checked over.
As Randy quoted, the engine temp was around 211 deg F, and this occurred right at the end of the 45 min drive.
Fred
As Randy quoted, the engine temp was around 211 deg F, and this occurred right at the end of the 45 min drive.
Fred
12-24-2004, 04:29 PM
#9
RL Technical Advisor
Hi Fred:
Given those ambient temperatures and the stop & go driving, its possible to see 211 deg, but its not great and I'd be prioritizing a factory front oil cooler installation.
I'd still pull the fan and look in there,.............
Randy:
Those kinds of temps indicate some issues to me. Things such as early or late ignition timing, oil cooler obstruction or dirty cooler, overfilled oil tank, improper oil filter (Yankee ones), fuel mixture lean from either wrong jetting to plugged fuel filters to low float levels, slipping fan belt, etc.
These things run at 180 and 200 when really hot outside. IMHO, some detective work would be prudent if maximum engine life is expected.
Given those ambient temperatures and the stop & go driving, its possible to see 211 deg, but its not great and I'd be prioritizing a factory front oil cooler installation.
I'd still pull the fan and look in there,.............
Randy:
Those kinds of temps indicate some issues to me. Things such as early or late ignition timing, oil cooler obstruction or dirty cooler, overfilled oil tank, improper oil filter (Yankee ones), fuel mixture lean from either wrong jetting to plugged fuel filters to low float levels, slipping fan belt, etc.
These things run at 180 and 200 when really hot outside. IMHO, some detective work would be prudent if maximum engine life is expected.
12-24-2004, 09:27 PM
#10
Ah - summer -- imp. info.
Why not put Steve's items in a list sorted by ease of checking/fixing -- i.e. fan belt at the top, etc. Then run down the list and report back.
How long since it was tuned up?
Steve has lots of experience with these cars. You should probably not pull any long grades in the hot interior of the country, etc. until you resolve this.
Another idea - did the Aussie cars have any different equipment on them that might make them run hotter than US cars as a usual thing? My guess is that it would be the other way aorund, tho (smog equip here but not there).
Why not put Steve's items in a list sorted by ease of checking/fixing -- i.e. fan belt at the top, etc. Then run down the list and report back.
How long since it was tuned up?
Steve has lots of experience with these cars. You should probably not pull any long grades in the hot interior of the country, etc. until you resolve this.
Another idea - did the Aussie cars have any different equipment on them that might make them run hotter than US cars as a usual thing? My guess is that it would be the other way aorund, tho (smog equip here but not there).
12-24-2004, 10:06 PM
#11
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thanks for all the advice. I will definately setup the list to go through with my mechanic, as it appears that he had comparable concerns. Should I also check whether the oil thermostat was working to trigger the fan. Can I adjust the trigger temp? I am a little concerned now and will be very careful driving to my mechanic.
Also, Steve, is it the case that later model 911's run at higher temps than the old timers?
Fred
Also, Steve, is it the case that later model 911's run at higher temps than the old timers?
Fred
12-24-2004, 10:48 PM
#12
RL Technical Advisor
Hi Fred:
Good catch, the engine mounted oil thermostat should be removed and checked in hot water to make sure that it opens around 195 deg F and its opening all the way. These are somewhat failure prone on older cars. The older ones are externally adjustable with that small screw on top,....
FYI, it doesn't trigger any fan, it only routes oil through and around the oil cooler depending on oil temps.
Indeed, the later cars with larger engines (more heat to dissipate) do run hotter and thats one reason why Porsche began using an additional front oil cooler in '69.
Good catch, the engine mounted oil thermostat should be removed and checked in hot water to make sure that it opens around 195 deg F and its opening all the way. These are somewhat failure prone on older cars. The older ones are externally adjustable with that small screw on top,....
FYI, it doesn't trigger any fan, it only routes oil through and around the oil cooler depending on oil temps.
Indeed, the later cars with larger engines (more heat to dissipate) do run hotter and thats one reason why Porsche began using an additional front oil cooler in '69.
01-17-2005, 12:21 AM
#13
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I have now had my fan housing off with no foreign matter found. I had the thermostat checked and its working ok. My ignition timing is being checked now , but I am told it appears fine. But I was still running a temp of 210F when it was 74F the other day. This time I was on the expressway driving at about 62mph and going up the rev range to upwards of 4k. The fan belt is tight too.
Since my engine has only 50-60 miles since rebuild ( a long time ago), could the rebuild have been screwed up in some way to cause this temp? I have the car in the shop at the moment and they are going to check the oil sender unit, to ensure it works properly. Any other suggestions, or should I just think about a front cooler in the near term? Also, my engine, while originally 2.0S was rebuilt with 2.2S liners and pistons, as the PO had already done this (unknown to me). Could this be having an impact?
Fred
Since my engine has only 50-60 miles since rebuild ( a long time ago), could the rebuild have been screwed up in some way to cause this temp? I have the car in the shop at the moment and they are going to check the oil sender unit, to ensure it works properly. Any other suggestions, or should I just think about a front cooler in the near term? Also, my engine, while originally 2.0S was rebuilt with 2.2S liners and pistons, as the PO had already done this (unknown to me). Could this be having an impact?
Fred
