74er

I went to adjust my e-brake last night and figured it would be an easy task (famous last words). Adjustment went smooth except the 'equalization' is off considerably. Following 101 projects it was a little unclear to me about how to adjust the brake cable at the adjusting nuts. I figured they were talking about the hard nut/tube which goes into the braking machanism which also has a turnable nut all connected to the threaded portion of the e-brake line. So here's what I did. Loosen the turnable nut, held the nut/tube with a wrench, and used a vise grip on the cable's metal end to try to turn it into the nut/tube portion(I saw that the other side was screwed in further than the side I attempted to adjust). While attempting to turn the cable, the threaded end of the cable snapped close to the nut/tube portion . I did spray WD-40 on the threads before hand. Did I do this correctly but probably just had seized/weak threads or should I know something else about the adjustment process?

DGaunt

Did you adjust the cables first, or the brake shoe adjuster star wheel?

74er

I first loosened the adjuster nut as described in 101 projects. I then adjusted the star wheel until the brakes slightly engaged. Then backed off the star wheel a couple sprockets worth, re-tightened the adjuster nuts and checked equilization. One wheel is engaging fine while the other is not. I also attempted to adjust the star wheel several times to see if I could tweek it into engaging both wheels equally to no prevail. The equilization could be seen as being un-equal at the hand brake and also could feel that the other wheel brake was not engaged. That's when I decided to attemp adjusting the cable.

Peter Zimmermann

74er: I think that when you started fooling around with the cables your project started going downhill. I assume your car is now on jack stands with both wheels removed. If not, it should be. Next step, remove your brake caliper bolts, 2/side, and move the calipers out of the way far enough to clear the rotors. If bleeding the system is easy for you, disconnect the fluid lines and put the calipers on the bench out of the way. If your fluid lines are disconnected block your brake pedal in the brakes-on position so you don't lose fluid. OK, take the two small screws out of each rotor hat (sometimes placing a screwdriver socket in the screw slot and giving it a firm tap with a good hammer works wonders getting them loose), use chalk to put an "L" on the left rotor, and an "R" on the right rotor and take them off. I think that you will immediately see your problem, one or more broken expansion plates, probably on the side that wouldn't adjust with the star wheel. Before we go further, this job is not easy! If one side is still functional take some good digital pics so you can see how it goes together later. You will have to replace the broken cable, of course, which involves going into the center tunnel, but I suggest that you purchase four new expansion plates and two springs, disconnect both cables completely and install your new parts. I will ASSUME at this point that the friction material on the brake shoes is good. After your shoes are put together properly you have to do a basic setup on your cables. Adjust the tube/cable so when the jamb nut is snug against the adjuster nut you can count twenty exposed threads on each side, with everything hooked up. Then you have to back off the star adjusters until you can get both rotors on. I'm not going to go any further here until I know that you're actually going to try this yourself...
Pete

74er

Thanks Peter,
I'll have to take the rotors off to check this out. To make one point, both sides did adjust with the star wheel. Only when pulling up on the e-brake handle one side engages while the other did not. The equalization is definately off. The entire brake system is my first major project on this car. I've already re-built all calipers, SS lines, pedal cluster and soon to do master cylinder (rotors are within spec. but I'll eventually replace them). I'll let you know what I see when I pull the rotors. Questions: Was my original thought process correct when I went to adjust the cable if the expansion plates are not broken? I am definately going to do most projects on this car, that's why I bought it. Every new / rebuilt item is an excitement to complete. I am grateful for this forum and the great experience here but I will mention modestly that I am a mechanical engineer currently working as a design engineer and I love this stuff. The experience is what I need and shall gain through this forum, books, etc... and trial and/or error. Thanks,

Peter Zimmermann

If you're OK with trial & error, so am I! When you made the initial star wheel adjustment I assume that you tightened until the rotor wouldn't turn, and then backed off the star wheel 5 "clicks" (one motion with your screwdriver for each click). This would have "adjusted" your shoes. When you pulled up your handle you ended up with a tight side, and a loose side. At that point the rotors should have come off. Equalizing by cable adjustment really never solves any true problems, the only time I ever found it necessary was if, with the handle at a certain raised point, you had a tight rear wheel, and the other was almost there, even making a scraping noise or being hard to turn by hand. The cable could be used in those cases to make up the small motion needed. Also, with the rotors off you will see that the cable is attached using a castle nut - by nature they allow small differences in length side to side. I've always attempted to get the cotter pin through the hole as soon as the full hole is in view, that leaves left side/right side adjustment as little as possible. FYI: Each end of each expasion plate is made to hook over a small round projection on its shoe - when you install the new ones make sure that all FOUR ends are properly seated - it's tricky.

We're leaving for MN early on the 23rd and will be out of touch, if you proceed good luck with the project!
Pete

74er

Pete,
I've installed the new e-brake cable. Word of caution, getting the old one out is a PITA and required several choice words. So now new cable is connected at the handle, also a bit tricky, and at the expansion plates. The spring between the expansion plates is keeping them at their max distance from one another and I am having extreme difficulty trying to get the shoes back on. How does one get the 4 ***** onto the expansion plates and hook the front end long spring between the shoes. That spring is nearly impossible to attach and is very stiff. Any tricks of the trade?

Still question why it didn't adjust. Everything was together and not broken. Left and right side components are the same. The nuts on the cable were indeed seized and when I turned them it broke the cable's threaded portion. We'll have to see how the new cable works if I can get the dreaded shoes back on.

Peter Zimmermann

Patience is your best friend. The best way I found to "hook" the expansion plate ends over their ***** is to work a fairly good sized flat-bladed screwdriver between the end of the top shoe and the metal surface it sits against. That will give you a little more space to work the upper ends of the expansion plates into place (with their lower ends already in place on the lower shoe). It seems like 5 hands would help, but you can do it. I've used a needle nosed visegrip to hold the plates in place, but that doesn't always seem to work. One thing that you might try is to remove the cotter pin and back off the small castle nut as far as you can, that will also buy you a little working room to pop the plates over the *****. Good luck with it!
Pete

74er

Thanks Pete, I found that I could keep the long spring towards the front of the car already attached to the shoes by removing the outward expansion plate completely. Then connect the connical springs to hold the shoes in place and then assemble the outward expansion plate with the inner expansion connected to the ***** first. Everything is adjust now and is working perfectly. Thanks for all the input. Took her out for her first ride around the neighborhood yesterday...my first ride in a 911. Still very cautious though and didn't even get out of 1st. The brakes need a alot of working in to clean off rust from the rotors and all calipers and master have been rebuilt. Looking forward to further improvements.

Peter Zimmermann

Great news! Regarding the brake rust, you should pull out the pads and lightly sand the rotors and pad friction surfaces. Otherwise the rust will penetrate the pads, cause noise and reduced stopping power. Have fun!
Pete

red911 Targa

Hi Pete, here's an interesting question on my 1966 911 rear brakes. I know where the conical springs go and the long springs, but does the 2 inch round spring go between the two spring plates that attach on the studs to keep a slight pressure on keeping the spring plates from collapsing inward with nothing to keep them apart?? I took the brakes apart years ago (1984) and have forgotten.

Thanks, Tom

Peter Zimmermann

Tom: Yes, the spring you mention fits between the two expansion plates. You'll notice that each end fits nicely into each plate. Wow, 1984! I hope that you know where all the boxes are!
Pete

red911 Targa

Pete,

I do spend 1/2 of my time trying to find parts, but the car should be done by the end of the summer!! Peter Dawe is helping me with the motor and I am thrilled at the way the car has turned out!! I did it myself.

Tom