JGordon1236

Hoping for some guidence regarding replacing my 3.2 motor for a 3.6 rather then trying to squeeze out more power from the orignal 3.2 (it already has a chip, larger throttle body, a by-pass pipe, BB sport muffler and cone air filter).

Some background: I use the car on the street almost every weekend and track the car about 10 days a year. I do not plan on selling the car..ever.

Does anyone have any suggestions or guidence? Currently, I am trying to locate the newest (and lowest milage) motor I can afford.

Also, if it will fit, I am thinking about switching my whale tale for a duck bill spoiler. Does anyone have any thoughts about the differntial in downforce between the two (this really would only apply for the track days).

Any imput in very much appreicated.

Jon

theasphaltgambler

What are you budgeting for the engine and assc parts?

mamoroso

I am in the process to do the same. A 1996-97 3.6 varioram will cost you between 9.5 and 11.5k depending on mileage. Parts for the coversion are around 3k. Labor is 4k. You need to budget for an additional oil cooler (1.5-1.7k). ECU has to be remapped for motronic... (1k).

If you are not doing any labor you should look at around $20-22k. Your 3.2 depending on condition could be worth between 5k and 6k.

Find soemone that has done it before (Steve Weiner @ rennsport is a great guy and they have done several swaps). It is not as straight forward as people think/say.

Good luck

JackOlsen

Start here for information on the swap. Timmins has been doing this longer than anybody.

The engine will fit under a ducktail, or even a 964 tail or one-piece orgiginal decklid. I've driven my early car with a ducktail, IROC tail and 3.8RSR tail with raised 54-inch wing. There are differences between the three. But the ducktail is an excellent choice. It reduces lift (although not as much as the later tails), but also actually reduces drag. All the others increase drag.

If you do a search on this site, you can find the charts that show actual numbers for all the tails at different speeds.

Morty

What is the approximate weight difference between e.g. a 3.2 liter engine and a 964 3.6 or a 993 3.6?

JackOlsen

The weight difference is around 40 pounds, but that's misleading. In a typical swap, the 3.6's heavy dual mass flywheel and exhaust are replaced with lighter components. In the end, the weight stays about the same.

If you're diligent about it, the swap can be done very cheaply. Four years ago, I paid $5k for a 1993 3.6 (from Germany, when the dollar was strong), about $1.5K for the swap kit from Timmins and a flat $1.5K fee for labor. I sold my old (2.2) motor for just under 2K. I initially ran with a $250 Carrera exhaust setup and added a second oil cooler.

Morty

Thanks Jack. I am toying with the idea of doing an engine swap on a 3.2 (not in my CS though!) and was a bit concerned about adding more weight in the rear...

Bill Verburg

I would go w/ a euro vram because of the OBD1 DME rather than the U.S. OBD2. The performance in a lighter early car is breathtaking.

That said, Dan Jacobs has a rebuilt '97 vram in the classifieds for ~$9.4k

I would buy the t/p kit from Steve Timmons for the conversion, you will get great support as well as parts.

My transplant page

When done it could look something like this

JGordon1236

Thank you everyone for your imput.

Bill V. thanks for the heads up on Dan Jabobs motor (I am a CVR/PCA member and certainly know him by reputation) and your motor looks like a work of art.

Best,

Jon

911S3.6

As one who converted my 1975 911S 2.7 to a 3.6L varioram, I would respectfully suggest a lightweight flywheel/centerforce (or other) clutch, a heavier duty starter. Will you need heat or run headers.? The 993 exchangers are applicable-I had Smart Racing make me a dual out muffler, though here in the Hinterland we have no pollution/noise restrictions. We did have to adjust suspension for the outboard weight, and first time on the track toasted the stock rotors,pads, and fluid. You realize you are setting off a chain reaction of events with this conversion?? Yes, it's worth it. Nick

JackOlsen

Click on the 'See it go!' link in my sgnature for my favorite argument in favor of the 3.6 swap.

16jake

Hey,
I have a 3.6 993 motor with 50k orig miles I will sell for somewhere around 9k.
jake@rhscomputers.com

Bill Verburg

Any fly wheel used for these t/ps is ultralight compared to the~45# dual mass unit used oem in US 3.6s. Typically they weigh from 6 - 15#s, the ultralight ones have been blamed on stalling ussues in 964s used in t/ps, I have used ~10 f/w's on both of mine, one from Patrick and the second a German co whose name escapes me at the moment.

I disagree about the starter. I still have the oem starter that came w/ my '76 C3. Even w/ the 3.8 RSR pistons(higher c/r than stock) it cranks and fires immediately.

do budget for a quality oil cooler. The brakes an a t-look should be fine.

As for the spoilers the tea tray is surpassed in efficiency only by the 3.8RS bi-plane wings, a duck is the least efficient.

mamoroso

Morty

do not underestimate the financial side of this project. Jack got a sweet deal on his 3.6 and on the labor. You can check the pelican parts forum (www.pelicanparts.com)... If you do not provide the labor you are lookig at at least $20k for a Varioram.

I talked to several people (Steve Weiner, TRE Motorsports, Steve Timmins)... there are a lot of things that need to be addressed.
Talk to Rdane and Craig 911 on the pelican forum.... $20-$22k is what you have to budget.

IF U FIND A WAY TO DO IT CHEAPER PLS PLS PLS TELL ME. I am not trying to be a smart *** here.... Good luck with your project!