HarryD

While I will not claim to be an expert, it is my understanding that they are differnat animals. To add some fuel to the "fire, I have heard that the Permatune and stock Bosch CDI boxes are virtually the same design.

Lorenfb

"Todays technology is probaly better in 99% of all things made, thus I figure that the MSD unit must be better tham a system almost thirty years old" - Bryan Henry -

A naive statement, especially when you have no facts and don't understand the technology. The Yugo was recently developed, so it's better right.

"This debate has been conducted a number of times over at Pelican, with Loren always holding out as the flat-earther of the board (as he also does with ECU chips)." - Noah Pollak -

Typical Noah, & you're a moderator on Pelican, Please! Stick to your more appropriate
comments on polish and the best looking wheels for a Porsche. An x-Pelican salesman, right?

Why has no one addressed the facts? That's the purpose of this forum isn't it, and not to "slam" someone who disagrees with unproven issues. Sorry to not have "jumped on the bandwagon"!

By the way, I don't "sell" on any forum as some do.
Try reading my many technical posts (911, 928, 964, 993) in support of forum members!

Bottomline:This issue is not about subjective automotive experiences.
It's about objective automotive and electronics theories.

Steve W

Often is the case that Loren's postings are motivated by his greed. Fear that if owners knew of a better and less expensive alternative to the stock Bosch CD box, such as the MSD, it would severely diminish his revenues from his niche market of repairing them. Understanding that any business that competes directly with Loren's, he will bash upon to no end by creating the perception of an inferior product. This includes besides ignition products, other rebuilders of alternators, any DIY efforts at repairing your own electronics, and performance chips which competes directly with the ones he sells. I encourage those who are new to the Porsche forums to do a search, and remember this the next time you read one of his posts. Taken from Loren's website:

"Systems Consulting's business objective is to provide high quality and cost-effective rebuilt automotive electronic control units - specializing in Porsche cars. Initial products included Bosch CD ignitions, D-Jetronic injection units, and Bosch alternators. Subsequently, Bosch CIS and Motronic control units were included."

That said, I can attest to the definite effectiveness of MSD ignitions over stock Bosch systems. They are especially effective at helping to consistently ignite excessively rich or lean air fuel mixtures, which can occur under the dynamic and high transient situations of carbureted and high performance motors. Most notable to me was it effectiveness with high boost situations with water/methanol injection. Where the stock Bosch system would severely miss like it was running on two cylinders past 18-20 psi boost, the MSD would keep the mixtures ignited with ease past 30 psi.

Steve W

Who was it that once said?:

"This is a forum that should not involve personal attacks. When one can't defend against challenges, then the typical response as has been the case, is a personal attack."

r911

So Loren, do you think I didn't address your 'facts'??

Lorenfb

"So Loren, do you think I didn't address your 'facts" - randywebb -

There were 7 issues. You discussed just reliability which lacked a technical basis,
i.e. neither CDI has a redundant element, so theoretically the less complex is
potentially more reliable. Many Bosch CDIs are over 30 yrs and still operating.

Your other comments were subjective in nature. If you're
going to respond, discuss fully EACH of the 7 facts. Again, avoid subjectivity,
e.g. newer designs are always better - naive. Take the 911SC internal regulated
alternator used in '82 & '83 - worst alt. Porsche ever had.

You judge technology or a design by its' benefits and not its' newness.

Actually the MSD is rather antiquated in its' design as it uses an old
DC to DC converter whose output voltage varies with the input.
So, when cranking in cold weather, the MSD has a lower spark
voltage than the Bosch unit whose voltage is basically less affected
by battery voltage. The MSD design, other than multiple sparks &
revv limiting, is the same old design used in the '60s.

Steve W

Of course not. This url just keeps plugging itself in your posts!

r911

"If you're going to respond, ..."
- excuse me! I'll respond how I want. If you want to retain me, you can pay my market rate.

What I did do, was to use one of your comments _as an example_ the same type of comments apply to all your hypotheticals -- and that's what they are, hypotheticals. There is nothing wrong with that, but don't try to make them into more than what they are.

As for newer designs, they _may_ be better, or may not be. But you seem immune to the idea that the affirmative has the burden of proof. esp. so when you are trying to sell something. Your last para. is something that can be argued. ...

My final bottom line on this is that the Bosch unit can be rebuilt and that is fine if you want to enter a concours. Otherwise. people can try to winnow the wheat from loren's chaff. Less chaff would likely result in more sales, and I say that with all kindness.
Personally, I have an msd unit. It's cheaper and runs my twin plugged 3.2L just fine so far.

Bryan Henry

Loren replies,A naive statement, especially when you have no facts and don't understand the technology. The Yugo was recently developed, so it's better right. Well I and probaly most others will agree that a new Yugo is far better than a ten year old yugo.

wwest

Personally I vote for Loren...

theiceman

come on .. this thing was dead and burried .. lets leave it that way ...

gsmith660

I agree, but I must say I have never read a post by loren that didn't belittle somebody personally glad he doesn't post anymore. I just checked I guess he does but I must have tuned him out.