fixnprsh

Well as some of you know I bought an 84 carrera targa on the cheap, im kinda new skool and can can really wrangle power out of newer cars and 930's but I have never built a 3.2 and I need someone who is in the know on these for worth while upgrades while its out so i dont step on my own toes.

The engine is at the machine shop getting everything done on the crank,rods, case and heads, im having the intake extrude honed, some head and match porting done.
but what what is really pickling me is cam choice. 964? SC? I'm in smog helL.A. so im limited to a few things.
pistons? im unsure of that too. I'm thinking of getting the heads cut to raise the compression? ? ? ?
what about the test pipe VS. SSI's? and who is the king of the motronic chip? thanks in advance and I will be posting up photos as I go.

P.S. im also looking to do a 7/31 R&P as I really dont need to do 150+

JCP911S

Get the Bruce Anderson book for a start. Second decide what your target HP is... you can get anything between 230-up to 300+ for a grenade motor. Also, decide what induction system you are going to use... carbs vs dme... that will drive alot of the other decisions.... definately check your local emissions rules... some don't let you change anything from stock ("visual") even if the pipe is clean. Frankly for a street car, I'd stick pretty much to stock, as drivability and reliability are more important than max power at 6K revs.... balancing and blueprinting a basically stock setup could be sweet....if you really want performance, I'd put effort toward suspension and lightening the car.

SSI and a Bursch muffler should give some extra kick for reaonable $$ if the emissions are met. The stock manifolds and cat really don't flow that well... You may need to swap out to factory for emissions test and go back...(I didn't say that) Mass air sensors are generally held to be a waste of money, as all they do is improve throttle response.

Upgrade to raceware rod bolts while you are in there. Also, replace your oil pump... it is mucho dollars, but you have to crack the case to replace it... don't put a used oil pump back in the car!!!

fixnprsh

im runnig stock motoronic, smogcheck is ok as long as it burns clean I can get the visual passed
I'm upgrading to raceware on the rods and barrel studs I would like 240-260hp as this seems reliable and realistic to me. anyone want to chime in with cam advice?
Actualy I used the bruce anderson book to build my first 930 motor! excellent!

emcon5

What is your budget? You can replace the pistons/cylinders with a 98mm set to get to 3.4L and the Smog guys will never know.

A 98mm set of Mahles is ~$3500 last time I checked. You can also send your cylinders to www.ebsracing.com and they can bore them out and replate them and sell you a set of JE pistons to match. It is less expensive, but probably won't last as long as Mahles.

With a motronic car, twin plugging is fairly easy, you can swap to a 964 distributor with a splitter from www.andial.com and a second coil. The machinework for the second plug hole is ~$400. This lets you run higher compression safely on California's ****-water 91 octane "premium" gas.

Webcam 20-21 cams are considered by many to be as hot as you can go with a single plenum and have the car run right/ pass smog. The 964 grind is almost as hot, but costs about half to get your cam reground. http://www.elgincams.com/ can regrind your cam to 964 profile for ~$400.

SSIs and a sport muffler will help, but you may have to swap them out every 2 years for smog checks. Some people have passed because the tech didn't know what he was looking at. You will also need to change the oil lines.

Tom

fixnprsh

does anyone know if the 964 grind will pass emissions? I can swap out my mufflers every two years no biggie. im budgeted to $4500-$5000 in parts and machining as I will do my own assembly work.

r911

I don't see you getting 300 hp with a smogable engine. Maybe Tom can give you hp #'s for a mod'd 3.2 and a 3.4

Mine has carbs and mild cams and gets 250 hp. I decided the cost to get a few more by going to a 3.4 was not at all worth it.

fixnprsh

I heard the same. better to go with a 7/31 or change the stack in the gearbox is what i was told

Marcesq

Steve Wong is as good as it gets for chipping the DME. He can be found on Pelican's 911 BBS as SteveW. I have one of his chips which was set up for 93 octane, SSIs and a duel in/quad out exhaust and the difference over the stock chip was unbelievable.

emcon5

It is more than just the muffler, you need to change the heat exchangers and oil lines too. It is a bit of a PITA.

My car has 964 cams, but is CIS. My smog numbers on the CA "enhanced" dyno smog check were:

15 MPH, HC, max 141, measured 11
25 MPH, HC, max 113, measured 21

15 MPH, CO, max .99%, measured .13%
25 MPH, CO, max .79%, measured .24%

15 MPH, NO, max 1144 PPM, measured 212
25 MPH, NO, max 978 PPM, measured 173

I don't know if the limits were the same for 84, but a motronic car should easily as clean as CIS (probably cleaner) and mine is pretty clean.

rdane's engine is the only 3.4 dyno sheet I remember (for a street car). His was a 3.0 with a 3.2 crank and 9.8:1 98mm Max Moritz pistons and web 20/21 cam. You can see his numbers here. Losing CIS for Motronic will probably help. He has the early SC ports, yours are bigger on both intake and exhaust. There is also a discussion of 3.2 mods on Pelican today here.

Maybe Steve Weiner will chime in on exhausts, I have heard that as the displacement increases, the benefit from SSIs is reduced because the primaries are too small (1-1/2" vs 1-5/8" for the stock Carrera). Supposedly a Euro pre-muffler in place of the cat will do almost as much as SSIs on a 3.2, and still look stock (and cost less). I don't know if this is accurate, but it is worth looking into, particularly if the ~$1000+ for the SSI/muffler/oil lines can be applied elsewhere (like pistons/cylinders) Steve?

No replacement for displacement.

Tom

r911

I should amend that answer -- I meant on a stock displacement -- 3.2 -- yup cubes will always increase the hp & torque.

Portalnd has some smog regs, tho I don't know if Steve W. builds engines to deal with them. If not, then I would try some of the SoCal builders - I'd expect they are always dealing with smog regs.

emcon5

Randy, I wasn't looking to Steve for guidance on smog legality for exhaust, but more for the performance aspects of 1.5" primary tubes on engines of 3.2L and larger.

California Smog regs are very clear: Stock, unless the manufacturer jumps through CARB's hoops to get approval. At this point nobody has done this for a 911..

Tom

JCP911S

300hp+ was a swag at a full bore race motor, not that anyone would ever build one since the GT rules break at 3.4L

BTW, I have tube headers and a Bursch 3 pack on a dead stock 3.2, and the fanny dyno tells me it pulls harder, but I don't have numbers on it.... maybe it just sounds faster... as Fernando says..."better to sound good than to run good, you know what I mean"

fixnprsh

So am I being a fool to set my sights for 250-260 at the flywheel? I'm going 964 cams, I'm going to have the manifolds gone through, the heads and everything is at the shop right now.
Its no problem for me to swap exhausts out, but is there a significant HP gain from going to SSI VS. a test pipe and nice muffler?
the hot wire sensor seems kind of pricey, My buddy at Performance Developments is going to set me up with a piggy back to the motronic on the cheap so I'm thinking of that route rather than a chip so I can have another program saved in my laptop for the 110 octane at the track.
I've owned nothing and tuned nothing but VW's really, I've mangled a good 240 horse from the 2.8 VR6 N/A. and the 1.8T can get that with a chip and bolt on's! This is my first Porsche , I wanted one since my dad has always had them + I figured I should own what I work on and waited untill one fell in my lap. but I want it done right.

JCP911S

Tube headers are dirt cheap, and you can get 1 5/8 and 1 3/4 from Bursch and who knows what else from other places?. You can live without heat in SoCal.

fixnprsh

yeah, I'll tell the girlfriend to get a jacket, besides, its going to be a fair weather car only.