PCA Germany Region - serious Issues
06-16-2004, 06:27 PM
#16
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Great explanation Avenger. I think you pretty much hit the mark about what it's like here.
The info I posted was the way it was explained to me by our club officials via email. I basically cut and pasted.
After reading the letter we all received by PCA HQ, assuming it's accurate information, "forgot" is not really the right word.
Here's the first part of the letter:
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"In early 2003 while getting competitive bids for renewing our event liability insurance, we discovered that not only would the new insurance not cover PCA liability in conjunction with activities of the Germany Region, but, in fact, we had not been covered by our prior insurance for this area of liability for some time.
We discovered that the only way Germany Region events ever were covered was because they were formerly run on U.S. military bases. When on these bases, the insurer deemed they were on "U.S. territory" within the meaning of the policy, and did not exclude them from PCA's coverage."
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So, now PCA HQ and the insurance company know that we haven't run an event on a U.S. base in a while, so that's why we haven't been covered. Not sure whose fault that is.
Every regional president was also sent a copy of the letter, so your prez should have one.
The info I posted was the way it was explained to me by our club officials via email. I basically cut and pasted.
After reading the letter we all received by PCA HQ, assuming it's accurate information, "forgot" is not really the right word.
Here's the first part of the letter:
----------------------------------------------------------------
"In early 2003 while getting competitive bids for renewing our event liability insurance, we discovered that not only would the new insurance not cover PCA liability in conjunction with activities of the Germany Region, but, in fact, we had not been covered by our prior insurance for this area of liability for some time.
We discovered that the only way Germany Region events ever were covered was because they were formerly run on U.S. military bases. When on these bases, the insurer deemed they were on "U.S. territory" within the meaning of the policy, and did not exclude them from PCA's coverage."
-------------------------------------------------------------------
So, now PCA HQ and the insurance company know that we haven't run an event on a U.S. base in a while, so that's why we haven't been covered. Not sure whose fault that is.
Every regional president was also sent a copy of the letter, so your prez should have one.
06-17-2004, 02:35 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
Right
Well, one thing along those lines was evident. I was also here and active in the region from 1996-1999, and there were some issues that were creeping in, even in 1999.
The Porsche factory hosts (or at least used to) a big shindig once a year for all of the National Porsche Club presidents from all over the world. As a courtesy the invited the PCA Germany region president, even though that person is not a national level leader. When I left in 1999, a small cadre of folks had grabbed ahold of the leadership positions in the region and started "annointing" each other to the president's slot. They had themselves lined up for 3-4 years in advance, just so they could get to go to the big factory event, with it's overnights in nice hotels, free dinners, rides and drives in new cars, and big goodie bag at the end of it all.
One guy who is a retired military officer and has lived here for 20 years and had been president for several years (no one else would step up back then) was so disgusted by this new group of people and their plans to go upscale and up $$ for most of the events that he quit active participation after more than 20 years as a PCA member.
The region here has (had) lots of members who are English speaking expats from the UK, South Africa, Canada, etc. living and working in Germany. No problem with them being in the club (after all, they face the same issue of high costs and rigid rules for joining a german club), and even no problem with them holding offices. The problem is that the region was formed by and for U.S. military, civilians, and family members who are stationed here, and if lots of people who are not affilitated with the military presence here are in all of the leadership and planning positions, the focus shifts away from the needs and desires of the military folks and naturally becomes oriented toward what the Non-U.S. expats want to do.
I am not sure where the thought that PCA "forgot" to include the region comes from. As I understand it, in the process of updating the policies and/or changing the carriers, it was determined that the "work around" that was there under the old policies (Coverage only for events held on U.S. bases) no longer applied, in part because events were being held "off base" and mostly because the new policy or carrier no longer wanted to assume the higher risk and potential costs of covering us in another country. Keep in mind they'd have to be ready to operate within the German legal system, which would mean more lawyers etc, and more cost.
Anyway, I guess I'll find a region somewhere to be a non-local member of. Probably go back to Alpine Mountain Region in Colorado Springs, which was where I first joined PCA.
The Porsche factory hosts (or at least used to) a big shindig once a year for all of the National Porsche Club presidents from all over the world. As a courtesy the invited the PCA Germany region president, even though that person is not a national level leader. When I left in 1999, a small cadre of folks had grabbed ahold of the leadership positions in the region and started "annointing" each other to the president's slot. They had themselves lined up for 3-4 years in advance, just so they could get to go to the big factory event, with it's overnights in nice hotels, free dinners, rides and drives in new cars, and big goodie bag at the end of it all.
One guy who is a retired military officer and has lived here for 20 years and had been president for several years (no one else would step up back then) was so disgusted by this new group of people and their plans to go upscale and up $$ for most of the events that he quit active participation after more than 20 years as a PCA member.
The region here has (had) lots of members who are English speaking expats from the UK, South Africa, Canada, etc. living and working in Germany. No problem with them being in the club (after all, they face the same issue of high costs and rigid rules for joining a german club), and even no problem with them holding offices. The problem is that the region was formed by and for U.S. military, civilians, and family members who are stationed here, and if lots of people who are not affilitated with the military presence here are in all of the leadership and planning positions, the focus shifts away from the needs and desires of the military folks and naturally becomes oriented toward what the Non-U.S. expats want to do.
I am not sure where the thought that PCA "forgot" to include the region comes from. As I understand it, in the process of updating the policies and/or changing the carriers, it was determined that the "work around" that was there under the old policies (Coverage only for events held on U.S. bases) no longer applied, in part because events were being held "off base" and mostly because the new policy or carrier no longer wanted to assume the higher risk and potential costs of covering us in another country. Keep in mind they'd have to be ready to operate within the German legal system, which would mean more lawyers etc, and more cost.
Anyway, I guess I'll find a region somewhere to be a non-local member of. Probably go back to Alpine Mountain Region in Colorado Springs, which was where I first joined PCA.
06-17-2004, 04:57 PM
#18
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Forgive my pragmatism, but this sounds like it is the fault of no one. If insurance carriers are unable/unwilling to carry a foreign-based region there is nothing PCA can do. A region can not exist under the auspices of PCA without insurance. Payment of higher premiums or a new insurance carrier, etc. may not possible and even if it is, the requirements may be so onerous as to pose a hardship on the rest of the club.
From what I have read in this forum and some similar posts in other forums about this topic, I think it is very unfair to criticize the PCA officers and use innuendos of big money and power as the forces of corruption.
Whatever PCA was in 1969 is not what it should be today. It is the second largest car club in the world and it needs to operate accordingly. Liability insurance is a regrettable artifact of living in a litigious society. Unfortunately PCA-Germany is one of those innocent communities that is forced to deal with the ramifications.
I feel badly for the Region and I think everyone in PCA probably feels the same. It is not to say there is no solution out there, nor we shouldn’t search for one, but getting rid of PCA management or filing a lawsuit against PCA (see litigious society above) will do nothing to help the Germany Region and it has the potential to undermine the entire club. I really wish they would give up that approach.
From what I have read in this forum and some similar posts in other forums about this topic, I think it is very unfair to criticize the PCA officers and use innuendos of big money and power as the forces of corruption.
Whatever PCA was in 1969 is not what it should be today. It is the second largest car club in the world and it needs to operate accordingly. Liability insurance is a regrettable artifact of living in a litigious society. Unfortunately PCA-Germany is one of those innocent communities that is forced to deal with the ramifications.
I feel badly for the Region and I think everyone in PCA probably feels the same. It is not to say there is no solution out there, nor we shouldn’t search for one, but getting rid of PCA management or filing a lawsuit against PCA (see litigious society above) will do nothing to help the Germany Region and it has the potential to undermine the entire club. I really wish they would give up that approach.
06-18-2004, 02:52 PM
#19
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I think the main criticism of the Executive's handling in this sad situation is not how the insurance issue came to be or the Executive's ability to handle it. The problem to me was the lack of communication with the region which led to isolation and frustration of the members involved. ?I very much doubt the German Region Executive would have gone 'public' were this communication issue not extant.
I was also personally insulted by Bobbit's warning to me to not believe what was "being said in the chat rooms". This suggests to me that Bobbit, at least, is out of touch with a critical dynamic in the enthusiast community, and what it might mean to PCA's relevance to its members.
I was also personally insulted by Bobbit's warning to me to not believe what was "being said in the chat rooms". This suggests to me that Bobbit, at least, is out of touch with a critical dynamic in the enthusiast community, and what it might mean to PCA's relevance to its members.
