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Suspension: 21F/26R Torsion bars, 18F/18R factory mounted sway bars, turbo tie rods, bump steer spacers, elephant racing rear spring plates, fresh elephant rubber all around, fresh rubber front top suspension mounts, custom valved shocks for weight (elephant sells these as von shocks). Don't do more than this. You can do a front strut with an adjusted spindle and the 3.5" brake mount if you want.
Brakes: if you have the 3" front strut: ensure its all working, you can put the elephant alpha/brembo brakes on it which gives you a bigger front caliper. I have this.
If you have 3.5" struts you can:
Do the S brakes, which is no better than above
Do later car brakes which runs into master cylinder issues
DO 930 brakes, which is really good, and expensive. And bill is right, they will fit under 15x6 wheels, they require some modification.
Stop Tech makes a kit that is also really good that will work with 15x6 fuchs
I plan to do the stop tech kit.
And I can break this into components, meaning just do bushings once and see how it goes, then just sways and then may be ts etc. better financially as well, smaller hits and more fun
I will be probably do some of this, this winter
Suspension: 21F/26R Torsion bars, 18F/18R factory mounted sway bars, turbo tie rods, bump steer spacers, elephant racing rear spring plates, fresh elephant rubber all around, fresh rubber front top suspension mounts, custom valved shocks for weight (elephant sells these as von shocks). Don't do more than this. You can do a front strut with an adjusted spindle and the 3.5" brake mount if you want.
Brakes: if you have the 3" front strut: ensure its all working, you can put the elephant alpha/brembo brakes on it which gives you a bigger front caliper. I have this.
If you have 3.5" struts you can:
Do the S brakes, which is no better than above
Do later car brakes which runs into master cylinder issues
DO 930 brakes, which is really good, and expensive. And bill is right, they will fit under 15x6 wheels, they require some modification.
Stop Tech makes a kit that is also really good that will work with 15x6 fuchs
I plan to do the stop tech kit.
What he said! I have similar setup and love it. Keep in mind that weight and power all factor into this as well.
, the only real issue w/ A or S & M or even M & M brakes is the thermal capacity when tracked and even that only becomes an issue w/ 200 + hp & weights above ~2800# +/-
Exhibit 2 is the thermal stress index for most 911/9230 variants thru '89, Thermally A & M, S & M and M & M are all the same, brake torque is also the same for all 3 variations, the larger A & S calipers do have bigger pads which only lets them last longer
here the blue is street cars and the orange are track cars on the far left is some custom brakes used on My C3,
Bill, this is very interesting and I haven't seen this before. To be sure I am understanding - wouldn't weight factor into these results? Meaning the blue line could bend down across the models given weight reductions? Using a specific example that is closest to my build, the 1972 911S weighing 200lbs less would show a lower brake stress index result?
Suspension: 21F/26R Torsion bars, 18F/18R factory mounted sway bars, turbo tie rods, bump steer spacers, elephant racing rear spring plates, fresh elephant rubber all around, fresh rubber front top suspension mounts, custom valved shocks for weight (elephant sells these as von shocks). Don't do more than this. You can do a front strut with an adjusted spindle and the 3.5" brake mount if you want.
Brakes: if you have the 3" front strut: ensure its all working, you can put the elephant alpha/brembo brakes on it which gives you a bigger front caliper. I have this.
If you have 3.5" struts you can:
Do the S brakes, which is no better than above
Do later car brakes which runs into master cylinder issues
DO 930 brakes, which is really good, and expensive. And bill is right, they will fit under 15x6 wheels, they require some modification.
Stop Tech makes a kit that is also really good that will work with 15x6 fuchs
I plan to do the stop tech kit.
Funny the Elephant racing sent me the following after I spoke to them earlier today, before I read your message. This is pretty close to what you are saying
Bill, this is very interesting and I haven't seen this before. To be sure I am understanding - wouldn't weight factor into these results? Meaning the blue line could bend down across the models given weight reductions? Using a specific example that is closest to my build, the 1972 911S weighing 200lbs less would show a lower brake stress index result?
Weight and motor puissance are both factored into the data, A large plus for the race cars is lighter mass
Yes, the blue line would go down w/ street car mass loss and similarly the orange line would go up w/ more power or more weight, notice the stress in the early 930s compared to '78 up 930
brakes weren't/ really much of an issue thru the "73 RS(200hp /~2400#) but increasingly did become an issue as the cars got heavier and more powerful, my '76 C3(200hp/2600#) would go through a set of pads a day in track use and the pedal would go after the 2nd or third session, mostly because i wasn't a very good driver and overused he brakes. My '72S(190hp/2300#) never had an issue.. When I went to a 964 engine in the '76 the brakes wee totally inadequate for rack use(250hp/2600#)
Last edited by Bill Verburg; 10-13-2022 at 10:27 PM.
Suspension: 21F/26R Torsion bars, 18F/18R factory mounted sway bars, turbo tie rods, bump steer spacers, elephant racing rear spring plates, fresh elephant rubber all around, fresh rubber front top suspension mounts, custom valved shocks for weight (elephant sells these as von shocks). Don't do more than this. You can do a front strut with an adjusted spindle and the 3.5" brake mount if you want.
Brakes: if you have the 3" front strut: ensure its all working, you can put the elephant alpha/brembo brakes on it which gives you a bigger front caliper. I have this.
If you have 3.5" struts you can:
Do the S brakes, which is no better than above
Do later car brakes which runs into master cylinder issues
DO 930 brakes, which is really good, and expensive. And bill is right, they will fit under 15x6 wheels, they require some modification.
Stop Tech makes a kit that is also really good that will work with 15x6 fuchs
I plan to do the stop tech kit.
I agree w/ the 21/26 t-bar spec, That's what I use w/ my 2600#/300hp C3(custom valved Bilsteins and sport rubber bushes), great for street use but nowhere near good enough for serious track use,
for track my 993 ( ~320hp/2700#) and has the equivalent of 24+/36+ t-bars, great on a glass smooth track, not so much on aa potholed secondary road
Personally, I would do a lot of reading before you choose polybronze bushings for a road car.
Also, my experience with the "cage" style bump steer kit is that the cage interface with the heim joint is too thin and caused significant play in the joint on my car. Mine became visibly and measurably out of round.
I would go with the Rebel Racing type bump steer type design. I suspect it's more robust.
Elephant sport rubber bushings everywhere.
19/26 torsion bars
Turbo tie rods
Bilstein digressive valved shocks
Corner balance
Pirelli CN36 tires if you are on stock 15 wheels
Anti roll 20f 18rear
You won't outdrive this on the street and it won't irritate you with harshness.
Remember your car ways only 2300lbs or so, not 2900 like the G body
10-13-2022, 05:48 PM
