luvmytarga

OK, I'm looking for a 90-92 C2 cabriolet. I keep hearing about reliability issues with these years?? Also, my budget will restrict me to higher mile cars-90-125k miles At those miles what mechanically should I be looking out for. Anything in particular with the C2.

Thanks-

Jay H

The early year 964's do have their known problems. The "big three" are leaking in the cylinder to head area, dual mass flywheel failure and the distributor belt failure. All three problems have permanant and reliable fixes.

The cylinder to head problem (which is not that common) is the biggest problem and can cost $5000 - $8000 or more to fix (depending on who you ask). The original Freudenberg flywheels tend to fail around 30,000 - 60,000 miles and can be replaced by a reliable LUK dual mass flywheel. The distributor belt problem has two items that are needed to solve this problem. A $12 vent kit and a $150 belt replacement procedure.

All that being said, if you are looking for a car with 90,000 - 125,000 miles, the Dual Mass has more than likely failed and been replaced. The cylinder to head leak has either been fixed or the motor is leaking like a sieve. I would start fresh and replace the distributor belt no matter what and insure the vent kit is installed.

As with any high mileage car, make sure you have a qualified technician do a prepurchase inspection on the car you are considering. It's good insurance.

The early 964's seem to have a bad rap, but they also seem to be one the best values out there (depending on their condition).

Good luck,

Jay
90 964

lehmkuhler

I recently purchased a '91 C2 Cabriolet. The car is incredibly awesome. I did some homework; Jay covers everything I either read or was told about. PPI is essential.

Jay, my car checked out well and runs perfectly. About 58k miles on the engine. What should I look for if the flywheel begins to fail. Can I expect it to if it has not already?

Thanks

MelissaM

I'll chime in here: the '90 - '92 Cab is a great car! I know, as I've owned my '90 C2 Cab for over 4 years.

What Jay said was true -- get a PPI, and look out for the dual mass flywheel, cylinder head leakage, and distributer belt.

If the dual mass flywheel has been replaced with a single mass unit, see if it has a modified chip to help with the idle speed. When people replace the dual mass with a single mass unit, they often run into problems where they stall at idle.

Also check for oil leaks in general. As you know, oil leaks aren't isolated to just the early 964's. The thing is, they can be expensive to fix due to the labor to get to the part. And if you're replacing oil return tubes, etc., that can be a bit pricey.

Since you're looking at a cab, check the condition of the top. I've heard that the lifespan of a top is 7 - 10 years. Also check the condition of the top motors -- the front latching motors do occassionally go out, and boy, are they expensive to replace! (Don't ask how I know.) The top can also get out of alignment, and this can lead to all sorts of (expensive) grief.

All these things should be covered by the PPI. That said, when you find a car that passes the PPI, you're in for quite a treat!

Happy hunting!!

-- Melissa

PS You might want to post your questions on the 964 board as well.

Drew_K

Also, make sure EVERYTHING works. It sounds simple, but it's easy to overlook a small thing that's expensive to fix. Here are a few suggestions:

1. The spoiler should raise at about 50 mph and lower at about 5 mph.

2. With the engine off (but with key in ignition and turned to the right), extend and retract the spoiler using the control on the middle console. Listen for any grinding noises etc or anything out of the ordinary.

3. With the spoiler extended, check the black plastic piece below the spoiler to see if it's cracked or been removed. It helps to force air into the engine. This one's not a big deal though.

4. Make sure all the vents blow air in both AC mode and heater mode. Any AC problems can be expensive to fix.

5. Some 964 owners have reported uneven idle after a hot restart. After you test drive, let the car sit for at least 15 minutes and then start the car up again and drive it a short distance (1/4 mile is plenty). If the idle oscillates a lot, it indicates something is off. Could be a number of things, all of which are relatively inexpensive fixes. The problem is identifying the source of the problem.

That's all I can think of right now. The 964 is a very durable and reliable car if well maintained. I use my 92 C2 as a daily driver.

Good luck.

luvmytarga

You guy's are great.
Thanks alot!

Taylor.

Jay H

Lehmkuhler:

I am certainly no expert, but my trusted mechanic gave me a tip on what to do to get an indication if the Freudenberg flywheel is failing. He told me to downshift from 2nd to 1st or from 3rd to 2nd at fairly high rev’s and listen or feel for any driveline clunking as the gear change is being made. I guess that is one of the clues of impending failure.

I have 30,000 miles on my car and it has the original Freudenberg flywheel still intact. Though, I’ve got $2000 set aside for when (not if) my flywheel does fail. Common sense tells me that hard use of the car will make the flywheel fail sooner and low stress highway cruising will extend the life of the DMF. There are other posts in the archives from owners that have first hand experience with their DMF’s failing. See if you can check those out for more (or better) info.

Good Luck,
Jay
90 964

Bill Wagner

Luvmytarga:

Normally I "hang out" on the 964 site but there are few posts there today, so I'll chime in here.

Most, probably about 75% of the 1991 964s, have the updated cylinder heads (the ones that don't leak...or at least not like the old ones did). This change was implemented fairly early in the production run. If you look at a 1991 car, check the engine serial number. If the serial number is at or past 62 M 06836, M64.01 for manual transmissions and 62 M 52757, M64.02 for tipronic cars, then the engine is one with the updated cylinder heads (that info is right out of Bruce Anderson's book).

A survey was done several months ago on the SmartGroups 964 web site, and about 15% of the early 964s had developed the cylinder head leakage problem, and most that did, did so at fairly high miles (70K or higher). The problem isn't that a lot of the cars have this problem, it's that the cost of the repair is so high that most people get a little scared of the 964. The truth is that the odds of you having leaks from "regular" Porsche places (like oil lines and gaskets) is much higher than it would be for a given car to have the dreaded cylinder head leak. IF you limit your search to '91s with the fix installed, the odds of the problem showing up will be minimized. The massive majority of the "leakers" were '89 and '90 cars, which implies that the engine updates did indeed work.

As far as the Freudenberg flywheel goes, I have a survey going on at SmartGroups right now about this very issue. A cursory look at the results implies that the Freudenbergs appear to have about a 50% failure rate through the current life of the cars, but the survey isn't scheduled to be completed until the end of this month, and I haven't made an attempt to break down the data into a report yet. I've heard that as Freudenberg started getting into trouble with Porsche, their QA and production procedures got better, so it's possible that the later Freudenbergs may be a little (hopefully ALOT) better. This is unconfirmed, and hopefully the survey will shed some light on this issue. The LUK became standard sometime in 1992 (May I think). Check the owners papers and receipts because the odds are pretty good the flywheel was replaced.

As the others said, the distributor belt is really a maintenance issue. The vent kit can prolong the life of the belt, but it's still a belt and it can still wear out (like any other belt). Make sure it gets checked during a PPI, and have ANY car, regardless of the year checked carefully for leaks (even non-964s ). The symptoms of a bad belt can range from a mild, often unnoticable loss of power, to severe pinging and backfiring. Engine damage can occur in the latter as it could in any engine with a severe detonation problem....but most people notice the problem and get it fixed.

Good Luck,

Bill Wagner