HELP!!! Water on Floor Panels - 89' Carrera
12-23-2018, 08:54 PM
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HELP!!! Water on Floor Panels - 89' Carrera
Hey everyone,
New here to Rennlist and I'm looking forward to your help and advice for years to come!
I recently bought an 89' G-body Carrera on consignment in November. Last week as I got the car warm and ready to drive (I live in VA) I noticed that my windshield still looked frosted even after scraping all the frost off. Turns out my windshield was frosted completely from the inside!
Mortified, I did some more searching and here's what I found:
Now the million dollar question. Can anyone help me diagnose this issue? Windshield? Sunroof? Hose? Leak from the bottom?
I'd really appreciate your help with this one guys—thanks in advance!
-Teddy
New here to Rennlist and I'm looking forward to your help and advice for years to come!
I recently bought an 89' G-body Carrera on consignment in November. Last week as I got the car warm and ready to drive (I live in VA) I noticed that my windshield still looked frosted even after scraping all the frost off. Turns out my windshield was frosted completely from the inside!
Mortified, I did some more searching and here's what I found:
- Condensation around the sunroof and the inside perimeter of the front windshield
- Water behind the wooden floor boards (driver and passenger side)
- Water on all four floor panels with the surrounding carpet completely drenched
- A hole behind the passenger side seat (is that suppose to be there?)
- A screw with no washer or nut securing it on the left side of the clutch pedal
- Back windshield rubber (located on the bottom left if facing the car from the rear) doesn't meet the body of the car
- Back windshield moulding (located on the bottom right if facing the car from the rear) is unglued and warped
Now the million dollar question. Can anyone help me diagnose this issue? Windshield? Sunroof? Hose? Leak from the bottom?
I'd really appreciate your help with this one guys—thanks in advance!
-Teddy
12-23-2018, 11:50 PM
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Teddy, welcome to Rennlist! I think you probably have more than one leak. I would start with the rear window though, based on your description. Can you post some photos so we can better see what you are talking about?
It’s not unusual for the front and rear glass seals to leak on these old cars. It’s really important to get it squared away. In the rear, the water can pool under the rear seats and rust them out. Also on top of the rear deck.
Just because you have condensation up high doesn’t mean the leak is up there. I have an F150 that had a third brake light leak, and for the longest time I thought it was the windshield because that’s where the moisture was.
My guess is that your primary issues are the rear seal and maybe clogged sunroof drains. Once you get those sorted, you might want to pull the front windshield and check the lower corners for rust. Easy to R&R, but you need to be careful of the trim.
Is the hole behind the passenger seat under the carpet? There should be no hole.
Please post the photos so we so we can try to narrow things down.
Mark
It’s not unusual for the front and rear glass seals to leak on these old cars. It’s really important to get it squared away. In the rear, the water can pool under the rear seats and rust them out. Also on top of the rear deck.
Just because you have condensation up high doesn’t mean the leak is up there. I have an F150 that had a third brake light leak, and for the longest time I thought it was the windshield because that’s where the moisture was.
My guess is that your primary issues are the rear seal and maybe clogged sunroof drains. Once you get those sorted, you might want to pull the front windshield and check the lower corners for rust. Easy to R&R, but you need to be careful of the trim.
Is the hole behind the passenger seat under the carpet? There should be no hole.
Please post the photos so we so we can try to narrow things down.
Mark
12-24-2018, 10:59 AM
#3
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It’s likely the front and rear seals and possibly the sunroof seal or drains. Check the trunk too.
The seals are not too expensive but only buy Porsche factory. Yes they are more but fit best.
Lots is a job to replace. Find a glass guy that knows these.
And some good pics pics of your seals.
And park csr inside!
The seals are not too expensive but only buy Porsche factory. Yes they are more but fit best.
Lots is a job to replace. Find a glass guy that knows these.
And some good pics pics of your seals.
And park csr inside!
12-24-2018, 03:04 PM
#4
I bet that the seller knew that the car had a water intrusion at some point.
There should be some liability for not disclosing that, if you care to pursue it. The damages would have to be considerable to make it worth your while (For your sake, hopefully not).
12-24-2018, 04:01 PM
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Yeah, like I'm wondering if the hole behind the passenger seat was installed by the PO as a drain of some kind that didn't work for you because the car was not level. Let's hope not.
Mark
Mark
12-24-2018, 04:02 PM
#6
first thing cover the car up
2nd, shop vac out all the water & put some lit incandescent light bulbs in there to help dry - air hose helps too
Uro windscreen seals may be better than factory - you'll need to research that
small leaks can be from seals around wiper studs - tho likely not your problem
open the sunroof and use lawn trimmer plastic line to probe - also try from under the car
cowl drain rubber 'coupler' can rot - early cars have a part that is NLS but a repro. piece can be had - I dunno what your MY needs but get out the parts diagram and check
I agree with rear window as a likely big leak - you may need to tear out the 'upholstery' over the rear shelf (it will lift out if you jiggle it over the metal tab holding it in); some have had ot wled in new metal but hopefully not you
Good Luck
2nd, shop vac out all the water & put some lit incandescent light bulbs in there to help dry - air hose helps too
Uro windscreen seals may be better than factory - you'll need to research that
small leaks can be from seals around wiper studs - tho likely not your problem
open the sunroof and use lawn trimmer plastic line to probe - also try from under the car
cowl drain rubber 'coupler' can rot - early cars have a part that is NLS but a repro. piece can be had - I dunno what your MY needs but get out the parts diagram and check
I agree with rear window as a likely big leak - you may need to tear out the 'upholstery' over the rear shelf (it will lift out if you jiggle it over the metal tab holding it in); some have had ot wled in new metal but hopefully not you
Good Luck
12-24-2018, 08:20 PM
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Hole Behind Passenger Seat
Screw Next to Clutch Pedal
Driver's Side Floor Panel
Driver's Side Backseat Floor Panel
Back Windshield Moulding (located bottom right if facing car from the rear)
Back Windshield Rubber Seal (located bottom left if facing car from the rear)
Hi Mark, thanks for the quick reply!
I'm still figuring out how to post but I think I've attached the photos. Let me know what you think.
As to your question, the hole is located underneath the carpet behind the passenger seat. Should I just go ahead and plug it then?
Last edited by TeddyJ; 12-24-2018 at 09:30 PM.
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12-24-2018, 09:32 PM
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It’s likely the front and rear seals and possibly the sunroof seal or drains. Check the trunk too.
The seals are not too expensive but only buy Porsche factory. Yes they are more but fit best.
Lots is a job to replace. Find a glass guy that knows these.
And some good pics pics of your seals.
And park csr inside!
The seals are not too expensive but only buy Porsche factory. Yes they are more but fit best.
Lots is a job to replace. Find a glass guy that knows these.
And some good pics pics of your seals.
And park csr inside!
12-24-2018, 09:37 PM
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That's a good point. Unfortunately none of that showed up on the PPI either. I'll keep you posted if this thing gets worse!
12-24-2018, 09:41 PM
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Thanks Mark!
12-24-2018, 09:49 PM
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first thing cover the car up
2nd, shop vac out all the water & put some lit incandescent light bulbs in there to help dry - air hose helps too
Uro windscreen seals may be better than factory - you'll need to research that
small leaks can be from seals around wiper studs - tho likely not your problem
open the sunroof and use lawn trimmer plastic line to probe - also try from under the car
cowl drain rubber 'coupler' can rot - early cars have a part that is NLS but a repro. piece can be had - I dunno what your MY needs but get out the parts diagram and check
I agree with rear window as a likely big leak - you may need to tear out the 'upholstery' over the rear shelf (it will lift out if you jiggle it over the metal tab holding it in); some have had ot wled in new metal but hopefully not you
Good Luck
2nd, shop vac out all the water & put some lit incandescent light bulbs in there to help dry - air hose helps too
Uro windscreen seals may be better than factory - you'll need to research that
small leaks can be from seals around wiper studs - tho likely not your problem
open the sunroof and use lawn trimmer plastic line to probe - also try from under the car
cowl drain rubber 'coupler' can rot - early cars have a part that is NLS but a repro. piece can be had - I dunno what your MY needs but get out the parts diagram and check
I agree with rear window as a likely big leak - you may need to tear out the 'upholstery' over the rear shelf (it will lift out if you jiggle it over the metal tab holding it in); some have had ot wled in new metal but hopefully not you
Good Luck
I'll get underneath the upholstery tomorrow or Wednesday and see if I find anything (hopefully not)!
12-26-2018, 01:59 PM
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Where are you located? You could ask a shop you are using/plan to use to recommend a good glass guy. The glass goes on with no sealant, it is just the rubber gasket that holds it in place.
I wouldn't worry about that hole in the rear tunnel. Not sure what it is for (my car doesn't have it), but I thought you were describing a hole drilled down through the pan.
Not to terrify you too much, but here is a good thread on why the glass leaks are such a concern. Note the sound pad under the rear parcel shelf - you'll want to get that out and dried: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...ance-item.html
To take out the rear glass you probably should cut the old gasket with a sharp utility knife from the inside. Then push while someone is on the outside to catch it. Need to be careful with the defroster wiring, not sure where the connector is located.
Everyone seems to recommend only using Porsche seals. Uro's may be getting better, but I don't have any direct experience. Place the new seal around the glass, carefully remove the trim from the old seal and re-install on the new one. Thread a rope (about the thickness of a pencil) into the seal where it sits on the body. Lube up with dish soap, then place the glass in place. While someone pushes from the outside, slowly pull out the rope. It should expand the lip of the seal around the body flange.
That's it in a nutshell, but it can be tricky. Just be glad you don't have a Targa that needs a new rear seal. Here are a couple of threads that may be useful. I couldn't find any good ones on Rennlist:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...l-71-help.html
Great thread on doing the front, some of these tips will probably help for the rear too: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...seal-body.html
Good luck!
Mark
I wouldn't worry about that hole in the rear tunnel. Not sure what it is for (my car doesn't have it), but I thought you were describing a hole drilled down through the pan.
Not to terrify you too much, but here is a good thread on why the glass leaks are such a concern. Note the sound pad under the rear parcel shelf - you'll want to get that out and dried: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...ance-item.html
To take out the rear glass you probably should cut the old gasket with a sharp utility knife from the inside. Then push while someone is on the outside to catch it. Need to be careful with the defroster wiring, not sure where the connector is located.
Everyone seems to recommend only using Porsche seals. Uro's may be getting better, but I don't have any direct experience. Place the new seal around the glass, carefully remove the trim from the old seal and re-install on the new one. Thread a rope (about the thickness of a pencil) into the seal where it sits on the body. Lube up with dish soap, then place the glass in place. While someone pushes from the outside, slowly pull out the rope. It should expand the lip of the seal around the body flange.
That's it in a nutshell, but it can be tricky. Just be glad you don't have a Targa that needs a new rear seal. Here are a couple of threads that may be useful. I couldn't find any good ones on Rennlist:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...l-71-help.html
Great thread on doing the front, some of these tips will probably help for the rear too: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...seal-body.html
Good luck!
Mark
12-26-2018, 03:01 PM
#14
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Ask the best Porsche air cooled shop in the area who they use for glass installs. And use them.
12-26-2018, 03:54 PM
#15
Uro has said they are using special new rubber-like compound. I would either use what an expert old-air-cooled-911 Porsche shop uses and let them do it, or... if you cannot find such a shop near you... call people who do a lot of restorations expertly on old 911s. Many or most are in SoCal. One is TRE, owned by Dave B. (you don't want to see me try to spell his last name). There are others too.
I helped a friend do the glass on his '71 but I don't recall now what brand seals used - it was years ago anyway, so things may have changed.
As per above posts, these seals are different from all new cars (new = last couple of decades), and can be DIYed but a modern shop (and his wage slave labor) may not know what to do on these.
You might pull the rear shelf upholstery out and see what things look like first, but you have the symptomatology of R. seal-itis.
I helped a friend do the glass on his '71 but I don't recall now what brand seals used - it was years ago anyway, so things may have changed.
As per above posts, these seals are different from all new cars (new = last couple of decades), and can be DIYed but a modern shop (and his wage slave labor) may not know what to do on these.
You might pull the rear shelf upholstery out and see what things look like first, but you have the symptomatology of R. seal-itis.