Speedraser

No way would a new 944 type car do more damage to the brand than the new VW-engined V6 Cayenne. What, exactly, is Porsche about that vehicle???

Jay H

I remember when Porsche introduced the 964 based RS America (stripped down C2 for $10k less than a normal C2), that model sat on some dealer lots due to low demand... Also, most RSA's left the factory with most of the luxury options installed (sunroof, A/C, etc...)

I wonder if this would happen again if Porsche offered a stripped model 986 or 996 for less money...?

Speedraser

They didn't sit on dealer lots in NY.

exc911ence

I never dissed the quality of the 944, far from it! It takes one heck of a good 80s car to still be better quality-wise than a brand new car of the new millenium. Get into any 944 and you're greated with a vault-like thump as the door closes (and the cabin seemingly pressurizes) and the materials used are better than the new Porsches use... this, of course, leaves out the crack-o-matic dash boards of the 80s cars. Otherwise, they're better. My comment was that they are the performance value now because they are dirt-cheap, of high quality, reliable and quick. It will be interesting to watch how the Cayenne (as well as the 996 and 986) ages and wears as the years pile on.

TaylorSea4

Exc911ence, I got you, man. But, when you look at the depreciation ratio (IS there such a term??) of the 944, I still say it won't be the monumental FISTING that Cayenne owners will take. A Turbo Cayenne is something like, what? EIGHTY, ninety grand? A loaded 944 Turbo S was what? Thirty?

But, you're right. They offer INCREDIBLE performance for the cash spent. And like you said, they have a QUALITY that I don't see the SUV retaining over the years. Yesterday, Kevin and I went out to Brian's (Red1) house to assist with a power steering pump rebuild. We stopped at the car wash by my apartment before the drive, and as is the norm for the part of town I live in, there were two other Porsche's there in addition to Kev's 944 NA. I asked the 996 guy if he tracked his car at DE's and he laughed. FIGURES, but only because he didn't look to be an enthusiast and it WAS a $60K dollar car.

Kev asked the Cayenne Turbo guy how he liked his car, and he ran off a list of three intermittent problems with (GO figure) electric whiz-bang gizmo's. I with you, dude. Those friggin things are going to FALL APART. The Cayenne's door didn't even shut with that reassuring "THUNK" that Kev's old 944 does. Tragic...

BTW, your 912 is GORGEOUS.

GrantG

Taylor - Actually, a 944 Turbo S was alot more than $30k - I think close to $50k with options. Was a great car though - but pretty horrible depreciation, since they can be had for teens now (and have been cheap for some time).

r911

I don't recall seeing any magazine critiques of the early 911 as too heavy (and I've recently been reading early R&T and C&D magazines I got off of eBay). I have seen some criticism of the 911 engine as heavy rel. to its power output. But in general I think Jack's point is well taken. However, everyone has the right to criticize everyone else, and that includes PAG.

TaylorSea4

Yeah, Grant, I kinda realized that after I posted it. Point taken, nonetheless. The 944 Turbo S is STILL one formidable car. Brian had the wheels off his while he was doing his rack and PS pump. I had NO idea the rotors and calipers on the Turbo S were so beefcake! Makes you wonder why someone would go through the trouble and expense of the Big Red's conversion.

But yeah, it's their depreciation that makes them easily attainable for a working stiff like me. Thus fulfilling my pubescent dreams of owning one of the hottest cars of it's time.

exc911ence

Consider what $30-50K in 1989 works out to be in 2004 dollars... that's Cayenne money! All non-911s are destined to depreciate horribly because they're "not real Porsches"... that's good news for all of us! I'm waiting for my $15K 1997 Boxster... I bet I'm barely a couple of years away from it!

GrantG

Taylor - I loved my two 944 Turbo S's, but don't be lured into thinking that they're reasonable to own financially. Price of admission isn't bad, but maintenance is by far the highest of any cars I have owned...

Chris Picklo

What it comes down to is what is:

1.Porsche going to do?
2.How can we be heard on this issue?
3.If Porsche continues in this direction, where will we (the true enthusiasts)go?
4.When "we" do go, how much will it affect Porsche?

As far as #4 is concerned, I think it will provide a rather large negative effect on both their reputation and their balance sheet.

I have a great example for you guys:

I love Porsche more than just about anything else. I've put these cars before just about EVERYTHING else (I have friend who can testify). But, when I spend 2 days at Sebring and 1 day at Roebling Road, and my (previous) Boxster S falls apart and I have a loaner jetta for most of the next 2-3 months, it really makes me think why any Enthusiast would purchase such a car.

If anyone is going to pay over $40k for a Porsche that won't cut it on the track (especially on street tires, I mean come on!), then what is stopping me from buying a Lotus Elise, etc?

I love my 3.2 and will probably never sell it (hopefully race it soon in Stock F), but where have these times gone?

cdp

Hetmann

I don't think Porsche is all that concerned about enthusiasts that own 25 year old cars. They don't have parts at the dealers for us and they don't get any service revenue from us. Most of us can't afford their new offerings and don't care much for them anyway. I think we're kidding ourselves when we talk about Porsche as a company. They are focused on the people who have the money and want the prestige of a new Porsche. Sometimes I think they wish we'd all just go away quietly.

r911

PAG will care about us after WienieKing is gone. His function is to put the company on a solid $$ footing. The next guy's function will be to recover the heritage that was lost. Then they'll care more.

flatsixnut

I just dont understand someone saying they wished Porsche made an affordable car...like around 30 grand. If they did it would no longer be a Porsche, it would be just another nissan, toyota, acura, etc...

These cars should be expensive compared to everything else on the road. I agree with alot that has been said here, and will prolly never buy a Porsche newer than a 993, although I do like the looks of the new ones...they dont float "MY" boat quite like an air cooled babe.

r911

They have always had "affordable" cars (912, 924, 944, Boxster). If PAG is that committed to a true sprots car (and can sell it) it would be great to have something at the 30k level -- a light wt. Boxster would be nice or something a bit smaller. The Boxster is really big compared to an older 911.

Maybe they can't compete with the Japanese.

I see no advantage to having them be expensive per se. If the engineering and build quality costs that much fine. But only a fool will pay extra for "exclusivity."