ajd48

Hi All,
I'd like your advice on what else I should consider upgrading when upgrading an 1983 SC 3.0 to 3.6L since the car will already be in pieces.

Here's my current plan:
1. Engine, exhaust, 2nd oil cooler, harness etc 3.0 to 3.6. Any advice on an exhaust for street driving - this would be a daily driver?
2. Upgrade brakes to 996, allows me to keep the standard "16 wheels
3. Upgrading to Bilstein shocks and replacing bushings. For street drivability with limited track use, what else should I consider? Sturts, coil overs, springs, sway bars? I don't want it too stiff if that helps (very subjective).
4. Keeping the 915 transmission. Should I be concerned at 300hp with tracking? Everything that I've read, says that 915 is ok up to 300hp which is not much room for error. Anything to be done other than go to a G50?

Thx in advance!

Mr.Anderson

Look at the Wevo Side Cover for the tranny and their Gate Shifter. The side Cover has a larger carrier bearing like what the 930 and is much stronger.

If you are keeping the 16"'s put your 7's up front and pick up a set of 9" for the rear.

For Exhaust.. Where do you live?do you have smog? If you Motor comes with Heat ex changers they will be fine. It will be nice to keep the heater function and you could just put on a M&M muffler and be done.

I have a New set of Rear Vons Shocks (ELEPHANT RACING) than I can cut you a deal on. And Elephant racing can get you a set of Front inserts valved for your specific application.
They are also a great resource to guide you on the right torsion bar combination.

Good Luck.

theiceman

ive never done one but I have heard about that side cover before so definitely look into that . Also didn't the europen transmissions have a cooler ? may want to look into that too.

911 Rod

Are you turning a 3.0 engine into 3.6? Or using a 964/993 engine?
Where are you getting the little bit of info you already have?
So much information out there on experts including Patrick Motor Sports.
996 brakes? Never heard of that one, but what do I know.

wildcat077

There's a lot of reading on Pelican regarding 3.6 swaps ... i stuffed a 95 3.6 in my 89 and it was pretty straightforward if you have some fabrication skills, for example
the modified engine tin goes for something like $1200.00 if you can't do it yourself , the 993 DME as well as the harnesses are available from Patrick Motorsports $$$ , and then you want to get rid of the dual mass flywheel and install
a KEP lightweight unit ... more $$$ , Fabspeed headers are nice as well, it's pretty costly if you have someone do it for you ! You definitely have to install a second oil cooler , i went with the rather large front bumper unit Patrick sells and my car runs cooler
than it did with the 3.2
As far as brakes go , i also installed 996TT brakes with a Fabcar dual master setup when i was doing DE's with the car , but that was way overkill , although it was fun outbraking GT3's and hearing
the guy's comments afterwards !

There are two sources for info on 3.6 conversions , Patrick Motorsports being one and the other is Instant G from Mr Timmins, who also sells conversion kits .

Have fun !

ajd48

Thx you for those great suggestions. A few responses on the points raised:

1. Wevo gated shifter looks like a good idea. I've also had others advise on a transmission cooler for track/DE. Consensus seems to be that spirited daily driving would be ok on a 915 transmission and an engine with 300+ hp
2. I've spoken with a number of engine builder locally (Texas) as well as both Coasts. The consensus seems to be keep the car as a matching numbers car but upgrade 3.0 to 3.2, go to carbs and upgrade pistons, cams etc. That would get you in the 300+hp range while still providing for a reliable engine. If folks have experience with this path in terms of cost, performance or reliability - I would appreciate any feedback.
3. WildCat077, did you have to go to a larger wheel rim size with the 996tt brakes?

Bill Verburg

Here's a dyno comparison of a really well built 3.4 w/ cams, carbs headers vs a recently rebuilt 993 3.6 w/ RS cams and an excellent valve job vs a 3.8 993RS spec motor, both 993s are running stock Motronic w/ Steve W custom chips, All w/ street legal exhaust(cat delete on all) If you can find a good 993 donor(964 secondarily) that's definitely the way to go, the issue is finding a good donor this many years later. Rebuild of any 3 to 3.6 will be roughly the same cost but a good big motor will beat a good small motor any day.


The 3.8 w/ late 915/67 trans w/ cooler is problematic wrt the torque going through it in the lower gears in that the main shaft and or cwp are knocked from true , the 3.6 is fine

996 brakes have pretty bad bias issues, I'd go w/ 930 or some combination of 993 & 964 or after market Brembo, though this last is pretty expensive, for street use you don't really need to touch the brakes or suspension

for cooling twin stock size fender mounts are ok, but better to add as big a valance mount as possible to the stock fender mount, fan on the fender mount is nice but not usually necessry, you get much better low through these.

wildcat077

To answer your question regarding the 996TT brakes , yes i had to use 17 inch wheels , although i had Fikse make me a custom set of 17 inch track wheels on which i ran "R" compounds. Now as Bill mentions , there is definitely way too much front
brake bias and i got lucky and found a Fabcar dual master which i installed with a Tilton bias adjuster.As for cooling , do install a large front mounted oil cooler, you'll have to change the bumper for a fiberglass unit but the extra cooling
capacity is required.
After some 6-7 years of DE's with almost everybody in the black run group running GT3's , Cayman "S" and other mega horsepower cars i decided to return my 911
to street duty and buy a race car instead.

My suggestion is to find a nice 993 3.6 engine on which there are no more valves to adjust versus a 964 3.6 and enjoy the extra horsepower and smoothness.
Another thing ... finding 300HP is a costly venture , even with a 3.6, you will need cams,headers, custom chip and some dyno time, it all depends on how much you're willing to spend !

PS: Bill is the brake guru here and i annoyed him with many questions when i was a newbie to Porsches , there are lots of people on this forum that are always willing to help should you have questions !

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

IMHO,...If you track the car, you should add a transmission cooler & pump to the 915 so it has a chance of long-term survival.

wildcat077

Here's another thing , Steve provided one of my local track buddies with a complete set of 930 brakes and revalved his shocks for his application on his 88 coupe
a few years ago and the results were very satisfying , he would be your guy for suspension questions !

Forget coilovers unless you have a dedicated race car, they are overkill on a street car ...

Amber Gramps

Wow, Bill....Why go 3,4 when my 3,2 numbers are so close? Weight loss and a 3,2 would beats a bloated stock 964/993 with a 3,6 any day....as demonstrated on many a weekend by my lowly cab.

....and ya, the 930 brakes on my car are "HAND OF GOD" compared to the stock 3,2 brakes....would not want to drive 3,0 brakes now.

Bill Verburg

All done on the same Dyna Pak dyno, all healthy examples of the type

Tremelune

No numbers have been thrown out yet, but just for a sanity check, this 3.6 swap is a ~$30k proposition vs half that for a 3.2. I guess it depends on what you would do with the motor once you get it (cheapest being nothing, of course).

The 915 will handle the power if you don't abuse it in 1st or dump the clutch. Smooth people have raced 915s in 400hp cars with little issue, and ham-fisted people have destroyed them with 200hp.

I've often read that the primary benefit of coilovers is the availability of stiffer springs, but I don't know how that could be true in the era of Koni FSD and Bilstein PSS10s and what not...I would definitely weld in shock mount reinforcements in the rear while the engine is out. Then you can always go to them easily in the future.

If 90% of the hours on the car are street, I think I'd go stock everything for the suspension (with revalved shocks), but I think the stock suspension is almost too stiff for daily driving around frost-heaved New York, so your roads may vary. Everyone on the Internet calls stiffer springs an "upgrade" but that has not been my experience for the kind of driving I usually do on the street (not pushing the limits of the tires).

Are you worried about brake fade? I wouldn't bother messing with brakes until the car is on the road—SC brakes are good, and you won't redo any work from a motor swap (unless the you're already down to the chassis).

sithot

A 3.2 SS rocks pretty good. I've a friend with one utilizing MFI and some "nice" cams. It's stout.

onboost

Yes, 3.2 SS is a nice motor...
One of the nicest motors I've spent time with was a 3.2 punched to 3.4 with decent cams, twin plugged, B&B exhaust upgrade and tuned Motronics. It was not the one size fits all chip conversion.
No numbers to share but it was dialed in well and an absolute hoot to drive. My point being that it was pretty much an top-end build the yielded a notable increase in performance without breaking the bank.