To Whale tail or not to whale tail
10-23-2017, 09:32 PM
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To Whale tail or not to whale tail
I have an 86 Targa with an inferior deck lid. Needs reworking, quote $3k
I love the look of a whale tail, and was considering finding one.
Lots of questions.
Best way to acquire one? Metal or the lightweights.
How hard to install?
Am I being unfaithful to the look the lords at Porsche saw fit to give my "Ursula"?
If I were to get one, rough guesses as to what it would cost?
Could I just get the tail part and use my existing deck lid?
I love the look of a whale tail, and was considering finding one.
Lots of questions.
Best way to acquire one? Metal or the lightweights.
How hard to install?
Am I being unfaithful to the look the lords at Porsche saw fit to give my "Ursula"?
If I were to get one, rough guesses as to what it would cost?
Could I just get the tail part and use my existing deck lid?
10-23-2017, 10:38 PM
#2
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What, $3000??? That's crazy. You might as well get a good used deck lid ($500) and get it painted. No point in trying to save yours if it is that bad.
For a tail, you need to decide if you want the shallower "tea tray" or the Turbo tail. Probably $500-$700 in good used shape, plus shipping. It should fit on your deck lid, unless the deck lid is too badly beat up.
Have you considered a duck tail? It's a matter of taste, but I think the ducks look better on a Targa than any of the other tails.
Mark
For a tail, you need to decide if you want the shallower "tea tray" or the Turbo tail. Probably $500-$700 in good used shape, plus shipping. It should fit on your deck lid, unless the deck lid is too badly beat up.
Have you considered a duck tail? It's a matter of taste, but I think the ducks look better on a Targa than any of the other tails.
Mark
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NewEngand (05-27-2023)
10-24-2017, 12:59 PM
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A HUGE peeve of mine - A narrow body G, with a late model ('78 and up) 3.3 liter 930 Turbo 'Tea Tray' spoiler. Although that spoiler was also offered on the UK-only Sport Package for the 911 SC, I think it looks too bulky and disproportionate on a narrow car...
The much flatter profile "Carrera Whale Tail" with the large, flush vents for the grill looks much more proportionate on a narrow car IMO. If I remember correctly, this spoiler was introduced in 84' for the 3.2 Carrera, but Porsche was also putting it on the last few months of 911 SC - UK Sport Package (which began with the 'Tea Tray').
The BEST looking "whale tail"-like spoiler for the narrow cars, has to be the one that they introduced on the '80 Weissach Edition, and was derived from the '74 3.0 RSR. The first design of the 930 Turbo wing was very similar to this as well, but had and extra smaller grill towards the rear of the spoiler that changed in size once. Also, I believe the slight variations of this spoiler were also available on the '76/'77 Carrera 3.0 as well. Something about the Weissach spoiler's inset grill, keeping the proportion and contour of a regular non-winged lid, looks perfect to me!
If it were my Targa, I'd go with a Duck Tail, John. I think they are that perfect spoiler that works with just about any G series, whether it be narrow or wide body.
-Cam
The much flatter profile "Carrera Whale Tail" with the large, flush vents for the grill looks much more proportionate on a narrow car IMO. If I remember correctly, this spoiler was introduced in 84' for the 3.2 Carrera, but Porsche was also putting it on the last few months of 911 SC - UK Sport Package (which began with the 'Tea Tray').
The BEST looking "whale tail"-like spoiler for the narrow cars, has to be the one that they introduced on the '80 Weissach Edition, and was derived from the '74 3.0 RSR. The first design of the 930 Turbo wing was very similar to this as well, but had and extra smaller grill towards the rear of the spoiler that changed in size once. Also, I believe the slight variations of this spoiler were also available on the '76/'77 Carrera 3.0 as well. Something about the Weissach spoiler's inset grill, keeping the proportion and contour of a regular non-winged lid, looks perfect to me!
If it were my Targa, I'd go with a Duck Tail, John. I think they are that perfect spoiler that works with just about any G series, whether it be narrow or wide body.
-Cam
Last edited by 09mageec; 10-24-2017 at 01:41 PM.
10-24-2017, 01:10 PM
#6
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A HUGE peeve of mine - A narrow body G, with a late model ('78 and up) 3.3 liter 930 Turbo 'Tea Tray' spoiler. Although that spoiler was also offered on the UK-only Sport Package for the 911 SC, I think it looks too bulky and disproportionate on a narrow car...
The much flatter profile "Carrera Whale Tail" with the large, flush vents for the grill looks much more proportionate on a narrow car IMO. If I remember correctly, this spoiler was introduced in 84' for the 3.2 Carrera, but Porsche was also putting it on the last few months of 911 SC - UK Sport Package (which began with the 'Tea Tray').
The BEST looking "whale tail"-like spoiler for the narrow cars, has to be the one that they introduced on the '80 Weissach Edition, and was derived from the '74 3.0 RSR. The first design of the 930 Turbo wing was very similar to this as well, but had and extra smaller grill towards the rear of the spoiler. Something about the Weissach spoiler's inset grill, keeping the proportion and contour of a regular non-winged lid, looks perfect to me!
If it were my Targa, I'd go with a Duck Tail, John. I think they are that perfect spoiler that works with just about any G series, whether it be narrow or wide body.
-Cam
The much flatter profile "Carrera Whale Tail" with the large, flush vents for the grill looks much more proportionate on a narrow car IMO. If I remember correctly, this spoiler was introduced in 84' for the 3.2 Carrera, but Porsche was also putting it on the last few months of 911 SC - UK Sport Package (which began with the 'Tea Tray').
The BEST looking "whale tail"-like spoiler for the narrow cars, has to be the one that they introduced on the '80 Weissach Edition, and was derived from the '74 3.0 RSR. The first design of the 930 Turbo wing was very similar to this as well, but had and extra smaller grill towards the rear of the spoiler. Something about the Weissach spoiler's inset grill, keeping the proportion and contour of a regular non-winged lid, looks perfect to me!
If it were my Targa, I'd go with a Duck Tail, John. I think they are that perfect spoiler that works with just about any G series, whether it be narrow or wide body.
-Cam
They absolutely need SC car or SC flares to make this look right tho.
You can absolutely add a tail to your existing deck lid but there are a lot of small nigly parts to make it correct. Look at the PET to see what you need.
don't forget you will need additional strut support for the weight also.
I think aftermarket ones look terrible and cheapen the car. Try to score an OE tail with OE rubber.
The tail will have Porsche engraved into it and the the rubber will have the crest.
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10-24-2017, 03:56 PM
#8
The front will need some treatment before putting anything on the rear. The big tea trays, whale-tails give the best downforce; the duck looks the best to me (but not as good as no tail at all).
An erectable 964 type tail is the best looking way to get more downforce. Several people have done this but I dunno if there is a commercial solution.
They all add wt. on the already heavy rear end.
A lot may depend on how often you zip across Nevada in 2.5 hours - if the answer is never, then maybe not worth the effort.
An erectable 964 type tail is the best looking way to get more downforce. Several people have done this but I dunno if there is a commercial solution.
They all add wt. on the already heavy rear end.
A lot may depend on how often you zip across Nevada in 2.5 hours - if the answer is never, then maybe not worth the effort.
10-24-2017, 04:11 PM
#9
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None of the tails Porsche put on any production cars produce positive downforce. All they do is reduce lift, which occurs because of the airfoil shape of the 911's body. They do this by spoiling (hence the name) the airflow that produces the lift. Wings designed for racing are different - they do produce downforce.
To the OP's questions, I recommend you source a used factory Carrera whale tail and install it on your existing decklid.
To the OP's questions, I recommend you source a used factory Carrera whale tail and install it on your existing decklid.
10-24-2017, 04:58 PM
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Correct. These factory Porsche spoilers we're speaking about on the G bodies were designed to reduce lift at high speed..
Because of our already weighty rear ends, Porsche didn't start getting into real deal functional rear-end downforce on it's road going 911 until the 996, if I remember..
-Cam
Because of our already weighty rear ends, Porsche didn't start getting into real deal functional rear-end downforce on it's road going 911 until the 996, if I remember..
-Cam
10-24-2017, 06:56 PM
#11
Team Owner
Originally Posted by 911Dave
None of the tails Porsche put on any production cars produce positive downforce. All they do is reduce lift, which occurs because of the airfoil shape of the 911's body. They do this by spoiling (hence the name) the airflow that produces the lift. Wings designed for racing are different - they do produce downforce.
To the OP's questions, I recommend you source a used factory Carrera whale tail and install it on your existing decklid.
To the OP's questions, I recommend you source a used factory Carrera whale tail and install it on your existing decklid.
10-24-2017, 07:00 PM
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10-24-2017, 07:39 PM
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Wow more tail than I understood
As I read early replies, I learned of the "Carrera" tail, and I do like that look.
The deck lid was replaced before I took ownership and badly painted. The shop I use for mechanic work (great folks) suggested a body shop they like. That was the origin of the price, which involved stripping down the lid, repainting and feathering into that part of car. So perhaps I could change that.
I also like the duck tail, a definite classic look. Some sentiment says leave it the way it came off the line. I find it hard to make sense of such things. This is purely cosmetic, this car seldom passes through 80mph in it's life.
The deck lid was replaced before I took ownership and badly painted. The shop I use for mechanic work (great folks) suggested a body shop they like. That was the origin of the price, which involved stripping down the lid, repainting and feathering into that part of car. So perhaps I could change that.
I also like the duck tail, a definite classic look. Some sentiment says leave it the way it came off the line. I find it hard to make sense of such things. This is purely cosmetic, this car seldom passes through 80mph in it's life.
10-24-2017, 08:10 PM
#14
As I read early replies, I learned of the "Carrera" tail, and I do like that look.
The deck lid was replaced before I took ownership and badly painted. The shop I use for mechanic work (great folks) suggested a body shop they like. That was the origin of the price, which involved stripping down the lid, repainting and feathering into that part of car. So perhaps I could change that.
I also like the duck tail, a definite classic look. Some sentiment says leave it the way it came off the line. I find it hard to make sense of such things. This is purely cosmetic, this car seldom passes through 80mph in it's life.
The deck lid was replaced before I took ownership and badly painted. The shop I use for mechanic work (great folks) suggested a body shop they like. That was the origin of the price, which involved stripping down the lid, repainting and feathering into that part of car. So perhaps I could change that.
I also like the duck tail, a definite classic look. Some sentiment says leave it the way it came off the line. I find it hard to make sense of such things. This is purely cosmetic, this car seldom passes through 80mph in it's life.
This is a '78-89 930 tail, AKA 'Tea tray' because of the raised edges, I don't like the look of these on an SC/Carrera chassis
There are several variations on the flat 'whale tail' design
early
w/o additional oil cooler grill
w/ additional oil cooling grill, note that this one is also the longer IROC/3.0RS version
early 903 w/ A/C grill
RSA/84 up Carrera
An aftermarket w/ out the rubber lip will be considerably lighter,
10-24-2017, 08:17 PM
#15
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as a lover of Targas, I suggest No Tail, the beautiful lines of the rear end of that car, IMHO, are spoiled by Tails. Some say that's why sometimes the tails, wings, etc, are referred to as "spoilers" (of beauty in this case)
if you go tail-less, I think the front lip edge has to go
if you go tail-less, I think the front lip edge has to go