Dadofour

Hi,

Than here again.

My search for a Porsche 911 Track/Street car is still in progress. I had assumed older cars would cost less, so I never really explored 911's above the Carrera.

I have recently noticed a bunch of attractively priced 964 C2's and had more questions...if you have the time...

in the 964 911's I understand there were issues with the gasketless Head design.

1) Are there specific questions to ask like "Has the dealer fix been applied?"
If they do not know is there any easy way to tell?

2) Are there other questions to ask?

3) Are there more desirable years in this line of cars?

4) Would you value an excellent condition '84-'89 Carrera over a '90-94 C2?

Your help has been great. I appreciate the time you are taking to help me understand what I am buying better.

TMH

Than,

I love my '89 C4, but it is a very different car than my '87 Carrera. Kind of depends on what you are looking for. In a general sense, the C4 feels heavier "in town", and therefore is perhaps not the best commuter car. Get it out on the road and it really stretches its legs - That 3.6 motor is fantastic. 964s are more civilized than the earlier Carreras, but "civility" is not something 911 buyers are always looking for...

Check out a couple of sites to answer some of your questions, about the gasketless head design and the dual-mass flywheel:
http://members.rennlist.com/jfk964/porsche_964_faq.htm
http://www.porsche964.co.uk/

Know also that many (including myself) feel that the issues with 964s have been blown way out of proportion, and the vast majority have already been corrected by now. But, as always, a thorough PPI is MANDATORY.

Good luck,
Tom

sschmerg

Than:

Only the first few years had the potential head gasket issue, after that Porsche started installing gaskets. Not all of them actually had the leaking, just the potential for it. Many early 964's will also have been updated by now.

There were also problems the first few years with the Freudenberg dual mass fly wheel. Porsche changed to a LUK unit around 1992 MY, and those are supposed to be stronger.

Another common problem was with the dual distributor used on the 964. The belt that drove the 2 distributors would break due to ozone build up in the cap. A cheap vent kit can be installed that solves this problem.

The later years (1993 & 1994) are more desirable since there were some bug fixes by then, new aero mirrors, nicer rims available, etc.

An excellent 1989 3.2 might be worth a little more than a 1989 or 1990 964, but mostly the 964 is worth a bit more all things being equal (i.e. mileage, condition, color, options). The 3.2 is generally a bit more desirable though, and is easier to sell.

All things being equal, the 964 will cost more to maintain than a Carrera 3.2, mainly because there is just more stuff on them that can go wrong.

I will say that the 964 is somewhat of a "poor man's" 993, and I think that makes it potentially a very good deal if you find a nice one. I like the RS America because of its fixed rear wing, sport seats, 17" rims and scarcity among other things, but the prices do reflect that. A regular 964 is a much better deal for essentially the same car.

Good luck, and whatever 911 you get will be a blast to drive.

-Sean

g-50cab

My maintenance on the c2 was about double what the Carrera has been. Also - much more likely to do the maintenance on the Carrera myself - was a little more intimidated with ABS/Bosch Hammer, etc.

If you are even close to looking seriously at a 964 - a PPI is mandatory - by someone who is familiar with 964 issues. Not everyone is.

I dodged the bullet by having my C2 taken out by a yellow cab - this is what the underside of my engine looked like...
|
Be Careful Shoppers - getting one of these V is like winning the reverse porsche lottery!

Jay H

I'll add my $.02...

Very nice, lower mileage 1987 to 1989 3.2 Carrera's might be worth a bit more than average condition, higher mileage '89-'90 C4/C2's. I don't think the '84 to '86 3.2's will be worth more than the early 964's since the early Carrera's "suffer" from the 915 transmission.

The 3.2's will always be popular, but all of the 964's that I see for sale in my area (which aren't all that many) don't stay long on the dealer lots or in the paper. They sure are a performance bargin right now. Now is the time to buy while values are low. Values may creap up a little as this economy improves and I would think depreciation levels on the 964 have stabilized a bit now.

Jay
90 964

Dadofour

Thanks for the feedback. I really just opened my eyes to the 964 last night and already today I found at least two good leads on lower mileage well priced 964 C2's.

I will search for the later Carreras as well.

I love the car shopping part! It's almost as much fun as owning the car, but not nearly as much fun as driving it.

g-50cab

I still miss the torque of the 3.6 - when this engine gives up the ghost - I'm swapping a 3.6 in there!

Want to be

Ok nobody liked my last comments on Dadofour last search. (older 911's)
But here goes:

I have owned an extremley nice 1993 964 RSA , and boy did it cost twice the amount an older porsche would for maint.

I can tell you that i have seen several 964 with the engine down aroun 30-60k miles. Most of the engines needed a top and bottom over halls , which is extremley weird for 911 on the first 140k miles range.

Besides the normal problems (1989-1992)

My mechanic believes they have weak valve springs
The head studs are not strong enough to withstand the loads causing uneven wear on engine heads (hince top and bottom rebuilds)
People are using synthic oil on air cooled engines causing weird engine wear. My mechanic believes that synthic oil desipates the temp too quickly causing the engine to overheat its parts. Normal turbo racing oils (20/50) allows the heat to transfer to the oil coolers.
Cluthes seem to go around 40-60 miles , but this depends on the drivers.
Again parts are expensive , try buying a new spark plug wire kit. You be amazed on the price difference on a 964 vs an older 911.

It was 1400 vs 140bucks (OEM) , this was about 3 years ago.

Good luck , i loved my 964 but my wallet didnot.

I am sure allot of people will not like my post , sorry.

jpc

Want to be

Cluthes seem to go around 40-60 miles

i meant 40k to 60k

sorry

jpc

Dadofour

I can't speak for everyone else, but I appreciate your candor with what is obviously a controversial topic.

I have seen a couple of 60K 964's in the last couple of days in the $24K-$26K range, and they are very tempting....

I am currently inclined to lean towards a high mileage 100K+ '84 Carrera.

I can easily see putting $5,000 into it in suspension, safety, and tires...and that is before I spend anything on unexpected maintenance like an engine rebuild ($5,000)...

My search continues...

Thanks

Want to be

I think you are on the right track , a higher mileage 1984 911 would be an excellent car.

The 915 transmission is not the best but its heck allot better than the 901, i have now.

I would search for an 87-89 , i have seen actually better deals on the G50 transmission models for some reason.

Either model you will find should be a good deal with high mileage , atleast you dont have to worry about the MPH gauges swapped. Its easy to do and i have seen dealer do it.

I would search for a clean example 87 for around 15-16k , you can find nice examples for that price. Just be patience and you'll find the price you want.

Ensure you get a good deal to allow for the needed maints.

good luck

jpc

Adrian

Dear JPC,
Your right I do not like your post. Simply because you do not provide any evidence to support your comments. They are simply heresay from an anonymous mechanic.
Yes there are some issues with the 964 especially model year 1990 and early 1991.
The stuff about synthetic oil is nonsense. Porsche delivered every 964 from the factory with synthetic oil. This oil was removed in the USA and replaced with dino oil.
USA manufactured oils created some problems for the 964 forcing Porsche in 1989 and in 1990 to issue a special warning to US owners about US manufactured oils creating coking. I believe this is still an issue with the 993 in some RARE cases.
Of course a set of spark plug leads are going to be a tad more expensive and if you looked at the reasons you would understand why. 12 leads is always going to be more expensive than 6. However the requirements for shielding the leads of a 964 are MUCH more stringent than an earlier 911 due to all the electronics and EMF issues.
As I said at the beginning, criticism is fair when it is the truth. Your post contains a little bit of truth tied up in a lot of heresay.
By the way every Porsche air cooled engine has had issues with head bolts, studs etc. I can find similar statements made against the 2.7 litre, 3.0 litre (pre 911SC), 911SC 3.0 litre, 3.2 litre and of course the 3.6 litre.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

Want to be

I was only posting info about what my mechanic has seen.
He is one of the top mechanics in the midwest. His car dominate the PCA circuit.

He has been doing this for over 35 years , he only works on 911's (up to 993),944 and sometimes 914 (but they are pain to find parts now)

Yes i guess you can say he has no proof but i can tell you allot of people will stand by him. Evertime i go to his mechanic shop i am amazed on how many cars are from out of state (FL, OH , MI , MN , ILL , Kty , Newyork.

He is a no BS guy , he'll tell it to you straight and wont lie about it.


Again i loved the 964 the most when i owned her.

I hope anybody that has a 964 does not have the nightmares that i had or others.


jpc

CDiercks

I suspect your talking about Farmer? If so, I would put a lot of stock in what he has to say.

Want to be

You are correct!

Thanks, jpc