Want to buy my first Porsche
11-29-2003, 11:39 PM
#16
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Want to be:
There is a POC owner that races his Carrera 3.2 with 250,000 miles on a motor that has never had top end work. He is fast too. There are many, many SC and Carrera 3.2 owners who would refute your statement about needing a top end or compromised performance at 150,000+ miles.
Mike
There is a POC owner that races his Carrera 3.2 with 250,000 miles on a motor that has never had top end work. He is fast too. There are many, many SC and Carrera 3.2 owners who would refute your statement about needing a top end or compromised performance at 150,000+ miles.
Mike
11-30-2003, 02:28 AM
#17
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Originally posted by Want to be
I am sure a 200k porsche would run but it would not have the speed it once had. Usually around 140k or so and its time for atleast a top end.
Unless the porsche has been torn down , i would stay clear from any car with high mileage.
A porsche with 200k miles would almost need the bottom end worked on too.
Good luck
jpc
I am sure a 200k porsche would run but it would not have the speed it once had. Usually around 140k or so and its time for atleast a top end.
Unless the porsche has been torn down , i would stay clear from any car with high mileage.
A porsche with 200k miles would almost need the bottom end worked on too.
Good luck
jpc
You can ask anyone that knows these cars well, and they would not agree. And even if it were true for some examples, you can't generalize like that. My SC has over 150k and runs like a bat out of hell. It does not use any oil and has very good oil pressure. This is NOT the exception, it is the rule for a well maintained 3.0 or 3.2 equipped car. Anyone that knows these cars is not much worried about high mileage. These are not 77 chevy V8 cars.
Someone paid 37k for my car in 1981. For that money, they got one of the most rugged engines you can find out there from that vintage. My friend has a 3.2 equipped carrera with over 150k miles that he has driven daily and raced very hard for over 100k miles. That car is a very strong runner and also never had the top end touched.
Cheers, George
11-30-2003, 02:44 AM
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Than:
There is a very good point that you have about the track / non track car. A well sorted track car that is known at the club to be a good performer and well maintained may be a much better buy than a garage queen that has been 'pampered'. This is especially true because it will be a track car with you. A 911 does not like to be pampered...
My car was bone dry on the bottom side of the engine when I got it. After the first few days of spirited driving, I sure now have the typical dime size spot under it and had to fix a few leaks already. All rubber hose stuff that wouldn't get to leak because the car probably never reached serious operating temperature. I think if I were to go through the rest (valve covers, chain covers and all rubber lines) I would be dry, but still, this was kind of dissapointing, because I was real proud of having found a non leaking example.
So, if you have the chance, look at cars that were tracked and have the upgrades and safety equipment already installed. Your local club will be the place to go tol It will save you a bunch, because the upgrades are expensive, just in parts. I sunk quite a few grand into mine since I had it. Suspension, seats, harness, roll bar etc.
It is important however, that the person that sells it, doesn't do so, because he needs to get rid of a headache. That's often not the case though, because people upgrade to a newer or faster car.
Now, what color is that coupe you are looking at? Color is very important if it comes to price. A brown on brown car will be worth less than a guards red on black or tan. General rule of thumb is that the silver, black and red cars are fairly desirable. There are neutral colors like white and there are the ugly duckling browns that were so fashionable in the 80s.
If that car is brown, I'd say 13k is a good price. If it were one of the more desireable colors, I'd say up to 14.5 maybe? This is just a guess. Remember, you can get a much nicer SC for the same money. So it isn't always: "get the newest 911 you can afford" rather than: " get the cleanest example you can find for what you can afford". Especially if it comes to the comparison between the late SC (80-83) and the early Carrera (84-86), there may be reason to go for the SC if you find a cleaner and less expensive example.
Just a few thoughts here...
George
There is a very good point that you have about the track / non track car. A well sorted track car that is known at the club to be a good performer and well maintained may be a much better buy than a garage queen that has been 'pampered'. This is especially true because it will be a track car with you. A 911 does not like to be pampered...
My car was bone dry on the bottom side of the engine when I got it. After the first few days of spirited driving, I sure now have the typical dime size spot under it and had to fix a few leaks already. All rubber hose stuff that wouldn't get to leak because the car probably never reached serious operating temperature. I think if I were to go through the rest (valve covers, chain covers and all rubber lines) I would be dry, but still, this was kind of dissapointing, because I was real proud of having found a non leaking example.
So, if you have the chance, look at cars that were tracked and have the upgrades and safety equipment already installed. Your local club will be the place to go tol It will save you a bunch, because the upgrades are expensive, just in parts. I sunk quite a few grand into mine since I had it. Suspension, seats, harness, roll bar etc.
It is important however, that the person that sells it, doesn't do so, because he needs to get rid of a headache. That's often not the case though, because people upgrade to a newer or faster car.
Now, what color is that coupe you are looking at? Color is very important if it comes to price. A brown on brown car will be worth less than a guards red on black or tan. General rule of thumb is that the silver, black and red cars are fairly desirable. There are neutral colors like white and there are the ugly duckling browns that were so fashionable in the 80s.
If that car is brown, I'd say 13k is a good price. If it were one of the more desireable colors, I'd say up to 14.5 maybe? This is just a guess. Remember, you can get a much nicer SC for the same money.
So it isn't always: "get the newest 911 you can afford" rather than: " get the cleanest example you can find for what you can afford". Especially if it comes to the comparison between the late SC (80-83) and the early Carrera (84-86), there may be reason to go for the SC if you find a cleaner and less expensive example. Just a few thoughts here...
George
11-30-2003, 10:09 AM
#19
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Originally posted by geo.aigel
Than:
Now, what color is that coupe you are looking at? Color is very important if it comes to price. A brown on brown car will be worth less than a guards red on black or tan. General rule of thumb is that the silver, black and red cars are fairly desirable. There are neutral colors like white and there are the ugly duckling browns that were so fashionable in the 80s.
If that car is brown, I'd say 13k is a good price. If it were one of the more desireable colors, I'd say up to 14.5 maybe? This is just a guess. Remember, you can get a much nicer SC for the same money. So it isn't always: "get the newest 911 you can afford" rather than: " get the cleanest example you can find for what you can afford". Especially if it comes to the comparison between the late SC (80-83) and the early Carrera (84-86), there may be reason to go for the SC if you find a cleaner and less expensive example.
Just a few thoughts here...
George
Than:
Now, what color is that coupe you are looking at? Color is very important if it comes to price. A brown on brown car will be worth less than a guards red on black or tan. General rule of thumb is that the silver, black and red cars are fairly desirable. There are neutral colors like white and there are the ugly duckling browns that were so fashionable in the 80s.
If that car is brown, I'd say 13k is a good price. If it were one of the more desireable colors, I'd say up to 14.5 maybe? This is just a guess. Remember, you can get a much nicer SC for the same money.
So it isn't always: "get the newest 911 you can afford" rather than: " get the cleanest example you can find for what you can afford". Especially if it comes to the comparison between the late SC (80-83) and the early Carrera (84-86), there may be reason to go for the SC if you find a cleaner and less expensive example. Just a few thoughts here...
George
I can't disagree with you more on the color. I believe the brown cars to be as desirable as the blacks or reds, just buyer preference and has zero reflection on price. The things to really consider are the mechnicals first and color second. I love the rosewood color on mine and prefer it over arrest me red on the highways.
Other than that, I agree with most every thing you posted.
Tim
11-30-2003, 11:42 AM
#20
Just some observations about color:
When I bought my first 911, I prefered anything BUT Guards Red or black. Too common for my taste. But, I ended up with a Guards Red over black 911 since it was the best example I could find in my area in my price range. So, when buying a used car, color does come into play, but condition really is the most important factor when deciding on a used car.
I don't feel color will reduce the price too much on these older car. But on newer stuff (like late model 996's right now) where condition doesn't vary as much between choices, yes, definitely, color is a factor.
When I bought my first 911, I prefered anything BUT Guards Red or black. Too common for my taste. But, I ended up with a Guards Red over black 911 since it was the best example I could find in my area in my price range. So, when buying a used car, color does come into play, but condition really is the most important factor when deciding on a used car.
I don't feel color will reduce the price too much on these older car. But on newer stuff (like late model 996's right now) where condition doesn't vary as much between choices, yes, definitely, color is a factor.
11-30-2003, 03:14 PM
#21
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I recommend this order of priority to friends considering a used 911 who are on-a-budget & have a short time horizon...
1) physical & mechanical condition
2) history (owner(s) / mileage / accidents / maintainence / storage)
3) model year characteristics / rarity / options
4) exterior & interior colors
If there is an overarching factor, such as color or a specific MY, then that becomes the first filter (yet, never buy a lousy condition car because of color or MY). The more conditions one includes in their decision-making, the more time should be allowed, more flexability on price, and farther away one should search.
I tend toward traditional Porsche colors (silver, white, black) or rare colors - damn the resale value if you like it & the car checks out. I don't like to see people over-concerned w/ resale value of an older 911 they are considering, it suggests they may have their priorities askew & may not focus on the car for what it truly represents. FWIW, I am among those who are fatigued of red Porsches - maybe because I am more accustomed to those hues on Italian cars.
1) physical & mechanical condition
2) history (owner(s) / mileage / accidents / maintainence / storage)
3) model year characteristics / rarity / options
4) exterior & interior colors
If there is an overarching factor, such as color or a specific MY, then that becomes the first filter (yet, never buy a lousy condition car because of color or MY). The more conditions one includes in their decision-making, the more time should be allowed, more flexability on price, and farther away one should search.
I tend toward traditional Porsche colors (silver, white, black) or rare colors - damn the resale value if you like it & the car checks out. I don't like to see people over-concerned w/ resale value of an older 911 they are considering, it suggests they may have their priorities askew & may not focus on the car for what it truly represents. FWIW, I am among those who are fatigued of red Porsches - maybe because I am more accustomed to those hues on Italian cars.
11-30-2003, 06:29 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
One of the man problems with higher mileage Porsche will be the valve springs.
I would guess any porsche above 140k miles would have weak ones. I am sure there is some cars out there with 300k miles on them with no problems but if you ask a good mechanic, hell tell you other wise.
My mechanic is the top mechanic in the midwest , most people stand and admire his car during races.
He rec. work state wide for race engines or standard rebuilds.
Enough said , i just hate for anbody to purchase a car with 200k miles and then have a 3-5 grand mechanic bill the next month.
Good luck
jpc
I would guess any porsche above 140k miles would have weak ones. I am sure there is some cars out there with 300k miles on them with no problems but if you ask a good mechanic, hell tell you other wise.
My mechanic is the top mechanic in the midwest , most people stand and admire his car during races.
He rec. work state wide for race engines or standard rebuilds.
Enough said , i just hate for anbody to purchase a car with 200k miles and then have a 3-5 grand mechanic bill the next month.
Good luck
jpc
11-30-2003, 08:07 PM
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Hello,
I don't mean to repeat what everyone else is saying, but I bought '85 911 this spring with 136,000 on it. I drove it to the Parade in Tampa from NH and have done MANY track days on it since then. Before I bought the car a doctor owned it who drove it to work on back roads only. He said he had never had it over 5,000 rpm's before. Well, let me tell you, my 911 LOVES to be at the red line. I swear that the car would rather be at 6 grand then at 3 grand.
One thing I don't think I saw mentioned was the body. I know in '84 they are galvanized but they can still rust in certain places. So make sure you check the entire car over. As for mileage, I have a friend in PCA who has a 911 with 280K on the clock and it is tracked by both him and his wife. Best of luck to you and remember that you need to be patient when looking for the right Porsche because the right one is out there.
- Jay Gratton
I don't mean to repeat what everyone else is saying, but I bought '85 911 this spring with 136,000 on it. I drove it to the Parade in Tampa from NH and have done MANY track days on it since then. Before I bought the car a doctor owned it who drove it to work on back roads only. He said he had never had it over 5,000 rpm's before. Well, let me tell you, my 911 LOVES to be at the red line. I swear that the car would rather be at 6 grand then at 3 grand.
One thing I don't think I saw mentioned was the body. I know in '84 they are galvanized but they can still rust in certain places. So make sure you check the entire car over. As for mileage, I have a friend in PCA who has a 911 with 280K on the clock and it is tracked by both him and his wife. Best of luck to you and remember that you need to be patient when looking for the right Porsche because the right one is out there.
- Jay Gratton
11-30-2003, 09:56 PM
#24
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All the advise given in this thread is of great value to me. (and probaly others)
Thank you!
My take:
1) Be patient and take my time - there really are a number of good cars out there
2) take the time to learn the subject at hand - there really are a bunch of people willing to pick up the phone or email and spread their knowledge - Thanks!
3) see #1
4) Please spread the word that you know of a guy looking for a reasonable track prepped 911....
Thanks. I'll keep reading and lurking...
Thank you!
My take:
1) Be patient and take my time - there really are a number of good cars out there
2) take the time to learn the subject at hand - there really are a bunch of people willing to pick up the phone or email and spread their knowledge - Thanks!
3) see #1
4) Please spread the word that you know of a guy looking for a reasonable track prepped 911....
Thanks. I'll keep reading and lurking...
12-01-2003, 11:34 AM
#26
Regarding Jay's post above and the doctor who never rev'd his car about 5000:
Can you guys imagine not taking a 911 past 5000 rpms for 136,000 miles? What kind of a sin is that? Even my garage queen that only gets about 1000 miles per year gets taken to red line every time I have it out.
Jay, I'm glad you are finally using that car as it was meant to be used.
Jay
90 964
Can you guys imagine not taking a 911 past 5000 rpms for 136,000 miles? What kind of a sin is that? Even my garage queen that only gets about 1000 miles per year gets taken to red line every time I have it out.
Jay, I'm glad you are finally using that car as it was meant to be used.
Jay
90 964
12-01-2003, 01:39 PM
#27
Drifting
Originally posted by Jay H
Regarding Jay's post above and the doctor who never rev'd his car about 5000:
Can you guys imagine not taking a 911 past 5000 rpms for 136,000 miles? What kind of a sin is that? Even my garage queen that only gets about 1000 miles per year gets taken to red line every time I have it out.
Jay, I'm glad you are finally using that car as it was meant to be used.
Jay
90 964
Regarding Jay's post above and the doctor who never rev'd his car about 5000:
Can you guys imagine not taking a 911 past 5000 rpms for 136,000 miles? What kind of a sin is that? Even my garage queen that only gets about 1000 miles per year gets taken to red line every time I have it out.
Jay, I'm glad you are finally using that car as it was meant to be used.
Jay
90 964
12-01-2003, 06:46 PM
#28
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Originally posted by Want to be
The most expensive was my RSA 93 , boy i loved that car but it was a money pit. (stay away from 964's , they have allot of issues , more than the usually post for pre 93's)
Good luck
jpc
The most expensive was my RSA 93 , boy i loved that car but it was a money pit. (stay away from 964's , they have allot of issues , more than the usually post for pre 93's)
Good luck
jpc
-Steve
