sschmerg

No argument there. It's just a lot more expensive to buy and maintain one of comparable year and condition. They cost at least 40-50% more right out of the gate. Of course, you get what you pay for!

The 930 was a real exotic, and it drives a lot different than a regular 911. They are an altogether different experience from the regular car.

Coming from an Audi with a 1.8T, this guy should be plenty satisfied with the performance of a n/a car.



-Sean

Mark sP

If my quattro is anything to go by, I totally agree with the above post. When turbos go wrong, they WRONG and it costs big time.

I have spent the equivelent of the purchase price of the car, just to keep it on the road! I would expect the 930 prices to be similar parts/labour charges.

For example, last month I had to have the exhaust manifold replaced. They are prone to cracking from the heat and the weight of the turbo hanging off the end. That job alone cost 2000 pounds.

This was the sole reason I chose not to buy a Turbo 911. As soon as I told the Lady I was going to get one, she did all but throw the kitchen sink at me. The compromise was a Carrera! LOL

Believe me, it is quick enough

pig4bill

I have to agree with Jay. The 964 feels substantially faster than an SC or 3.2 Carrera. Especially at high rpm's. It's just a smidgen slower than a new 996. If speed is what you're after, the 964 is the (cheap) ticket.

geo.aigel

"If speed is what you're after, the 964 is the (cheap) ticket."

And the ugly one too.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

George

Mark sP

I'm with George on this one.

The even sader thing, is that over here, alot of people modify SC's and Carrera's to look like 964's! Now that is just plain SAD.

AZ911

Your car is two bumpers away from the c2 look.

Mark sP

I know. It's a fine line, but a significant one!

g-50cab

To further muddy the waters I spent about double the maintenance on the 964 that I did on the 3.2 this past year - but the 964 sure felt faster and even chipped with a sport exhaust (in the 3.2) I wouldn't drag a 964 for money.

geo.aigel

According to Bruce Anderson, Porsche told the engineers to design a new car but keep the looks above the bumper line. That's why it looks so warmed over, that 964. They tried to streamline a body that was close to 20 years old by only fiddling with the bumpers. No wonder it looks funny!

While the earlier cars are only the bumper(s) away, things match the vintage. And what Mark mentioned, the fact that folks make the early cars look like the 94, that's only possible due to the bumper change character of the modification.

It is very sad, and I have seen this very often, that earlier cars were made to look like the newer model. I think it was to cheat folks into believing one drove a newer 911. That said, I think the only thing I think is a good change, is to get rid of those wart fog lights on the SC and install a Carrera valance.

I wouldn't consider a 964. I'd take the engine from a later one to drop it into something 89 or earlier, but you wouldn't see me drive a 964. Ultimately, if it comes to the newer cars, the 993 is what I'd get. But will they ever become affordable (<25k?). Unfortunately the water cooled stuff is so different, there may be too much of a crowd hanging on to the 993 at elevated prices! Too often I already read "last of the air cooled 911"

Cheers, George

Jay H

George:

I don't think you'll have to wait too much longer to find a 993 for under $25,000. Prices are still dropping and some high mileage 993's can probably be found at or under $30,000 right now. Give it a few years more and prices will still come down more unless we have some huge economic boom (which I doubt).

You can buy average 964's below $20,000 right now. The early 993's aren't that far behind. These are all just used cars really and the laws of economics dictate that depreciation will continue. Obviously the rare models will hold value (like the '89 Speedster and RSA models).

I'm sorry your distaste for the 964 is so great. It really is a wonderfull car with the large increases in power and technology without the loss of the traditional '911 feel'. Though I completely understand your attraction to the earlier models. I do miss my old '86.

Regards,

Jay
My Ugly Duckling 911

sschmerg

Maybe I just drove some slow 964's, or my 3.2 is a fast one, but I don't feel the enormous increase in performance some of the 964 owners are claiming. The 996 and 993 (especially the Varioram models) feel, and are, a lot faster.

Personally, I don't think they look that bad. What I don't like about them is their reputation -- be it deserved or not -- of being trouble-prone and expensive to maintain, and their relatively low resale value as a result. Like most special edition 911s, the RS America and the Cup Car (Row RS) avoided all this and kept their high value, so if I was going for a 964, that's what I would get.

-Sean

Mark sP

I don't wish to be offensive. I hope that my comments on the 964 haven't offended.

Each to their own. And I'd rather have a 964 than ANY Non Porsche car anyway.

MOMO3.2

Kyle:

I just sold a chipped 1.8t (200bhp/240ft.lbs). And, I still own a stock 2001 Audi A4 Quattro Sport with 180 bhp. My Carrera 3.2 will kick the crap out of either of my 1.8t's in a drag race that goes beyond 60 mph. On a road course, the Porsche would shine even more. Finally the raw nature (sound, driving feel, smell) of a Carrera 3.2 puts it in a whole other catagory than almost any other modern car on the road.

Mike

Jay Gratton

I must say the same thing as John. Welcome, us NH Rennlist people must stick together you know. I must also agree with John on the choice of a garage, I too go to Mark Nadler in Plastow NH (EXOTECH). He takes care of my '85 911 (with a 915 tran. in her and it does fine by me). I see nothing wrong with driving it on dry winter days. Keeps the fluids moving and the driver content. Best of luck Kyle! Being in NH you should look into joining North Counrty Region! - Jay Gratton

TMH

Kyle,

Just saw and read this post and I have to give my opinions as I think that they are applicable to your search:

1) Personally, I like the looks of my 964 C4 just as much as that of my '87 Carrera. And of course that automatic tail on the 964 it too cool.
2) My C4 definitely feels "heavier" in town, both due to the fact that it is, and it has the AWD. "Out of the hole" from a standing start it definitely feels slower.
3) With that said, however, get the 964 onto the highway and there is almost no comparison in my mind. I have never driven another car which has the same combination of power, speed and control that the 964 C4 provides. As you get the revs up, that thing really flies!
4) Definitely much more creature comforts in the 964 (with the concurrent loss of some "character", but it still has plenty in my mind). And, IMHO, the first time Porsche made an effective air conditioning system in one of their air-cooled cars.
5) I have not driven a turbo, but comments I have heard from some owners of turbos are that they are not too much fun to drive in town, or in big city commutes.

If I could only keep one of my cars, it would be the 964 C4. With the inclement weather you face in your neck of the woods, that Porsche AWD might also come in very handy.

Welcome, and good luck in your search,
Tom

P.S.: I'm also one of the proponents of the G50 tranny and hydraulic clutch. My '87 is my daily commute driver, and I appreciate very much the smoother shifting and lighter clutch pedal. Yeah, I know others will say that a 915 in good shape is just as good as the G50. That may be true, but none of the pre-'87's I drove when looking felt "just as good". Perhaps I just drove some bad ones, but it was pretty much the same in the 10 or so cars I drove!
T