Warning: newbie content!

Car: 2002 996c2
Driver experience: 4 one day events 4x30 runs each day. No multi day events


2nd event on the oil - Castrol Syntec 5w40 (and ~2400 street miles)

What is the recommended oil change frequency for a green group driver? I heard thing like "its synthetic... 10+ events in green should be no issue" and "you must change it every 2nd event OR ELSE!"


4th event on the brake fluid - ATE 200

I noticed driving home from the event that I would need to use more foot pressure on the brakes than I remember using pre event.. I would feel the brakes engage but I needed to push harder to actually brake - guessing its time for fluid flush? is so, seems like 2-3 events is the right lifespan for ATE.

From reading this forum I am going to try Motul rbf 600, but wanted to confirm its ok to use in a 996. Whats the recommended brake flush frequency on the motul? I read it last longer then the ATE fluid


Brakes: my front brakes have been on the car since before I bought it.. around 15k miles according to the service records - they are now about 1.25 times as thick as the backing plate. Does anyone know how thick they are new in mm? how thick the backing plate is in mm? when should they be changed?

Rear brakes: 15k miles on those and plenty thick.

Rotors - installed with front/rear brakes 15k miles ago. Cross drilled holes are full of material in the front but I see no wear or cracks.

Its obvious I am not too hard on the brakes at the track, my instructor told me I should brake later and I have been working on that... I would be interested in getting some more aggressive pads but worried about squealing in street driving. I dont wrench my car so swapping in/out pre/post event is not an option. Looking for suggestions in this area

sorry for the lengthy post..

thanks.

PS was signed off to run solo for the last session of the last track day (not in future events yet) - so I guess there is some progress

 

I changed the oil in my 996C2 every other event. Sometimes, every third. That comes out to about every 2-4 months.

Motul 600 works fine. Flush with the same frequency as oil, but bleed before every event.


At a minimum, change when the light comes on. If you don't run sensors, change when they get about the same thickness as the backing plate. You have to be careful as the pads don't always wear at the same rate inside-to-outside, and also they may taper.

Change when they crack out. There are plenty of threads on this. (length/connecting holes).

What tires are you running? Getting more aggressive pads may simply force ABS every zone. You should probably get an endurance pad to give a little more bite, still be compatible with street tires, and last a lot longer.

Awesome! Enjoy the car!

-td

 

For me it depends on how hot the water temp (and oil temp) is getting during hard sessions. 200 or less and I change oil every 3 race weekends but I run Amsoil's heavier 15-50 dominator racing oil.

Good brake fluid lasts me a year and I race in 2 series. Sometime I flush it just because I can't believe how long it's been in there but I've never had to bleed. Endless or SRF for me. Rotors when they crack to the edges or develop significant lippage at the outside edge...

 

I use Sumi HTRZ III tires... nothing fancy.

Can you name an enduro pad (make/model)? what are the cons to using these? are they harder on the rotor? Long life has to come at the expense of something else - nothing is "free"


my water temp never got past the 0 of the 180 on the dial which is the same as with street driving. I have actually never seen it north of that.

General brake flush question: when going from the golden colored ATE to the golden colored Motul, how do I know when to stop letting fluid out at the caliper? I think I might flush the brakes myself - Have a motive bleeder on order from amazon.

Also, when bleeding pre event, how much fluid should be bled?

 

Do not forgot about the transmission fluid too. I change mine every 4 (hot) to 10 (cool) track days, depending on the temps and length of the sessions.

 

There are quite a few makers of pads, many of them very good and they will last a bit longer than the stocks. I've been using pagid yellows, they have good bite, decent wear and are not too harsh on the rotors, but they will screech on the street. Some other makes may not make as much noise on the street. Lots of posts on pads.



The temp gauge will not show temps north of 180 unless you go quite a bit past that point of a period of time. If you plan on continuing with your car and improving as a solo, especially if you start using stickier tires, you might considering installing an X51 oil pan. Your car has a wet sump, which in higher G corners can at times starve the engine of oil. The X51 has dampers and is deeper, which helps prevent this problem.


Bleed until you get clear fluid and no bubbles.

Cheers!!!

 

As a counterpoint, the short oil change intervals suggested above may be overkill for your purposes (and for mine!).

2 major additional considerations come to mind: what type of track usage, and what duration on track each day.

There is no comparison between novice DE usage and racing. Not even close. There is also a huge difference between an open track day when you may spend 2, 3 or 4 hours on track, and a DE where you may get 60 minutes all in once you account for warm up and cool down laps.

I would suggest that if you are using a top quality synthetic oil, you could do many, many entry level DE days without significanly altering your normal street use change interval.

Once you are pushing hard consistently, and doing consistently more and longer track days, then an oil analysis would probably be the best way to assess when earlier changes are in fact required.

Just my $0.02 (and your $15,000 engine).

Best,

Matt

 

I take my durametric with me to every event just in case I get a code... I will use it to get an accurate water temp after the next run... need to confirm that the software has an oil temp readout but I know it has the water temp...

 

Since you've undertaken enjoying DE's, it is a perfect seguay (sp) into learning how to do a few things on the car yourself

1) Brake pads. NO car has easier brake calipers on which to change out pads than a 996. You will be sorely angry that you used to pay $300-500 or whatever for a dealer/shop to do this menial task. Doing it yourse

2) Bleeding brakes.. see #1.. I would recommend a bleed only (not a full flush) maybe every 2-3 events. It will help get out the hot/boiled fluid in the calipers. This will return your pedal to that nice firm pedal you want. I'd do a full flush every spring. (Factory flush interval is every 2 years, btw)

3) Brake pad choice is up to you, but yes, the more track oriented your pads, the more squeal and dust will be present.

4) By doing items 1 and 2, it will also allow you to look at things on your car you might not usually see.. and therefore, it might help you catch future issues. It might also lead to doing oil changes yourself. Cleaning out front cooling ducts etc etc

Also, saving money on items 1&2 will help you afford a set of "track wheels"


* I would do a FLUSH if changing from the lower temp ATE to higher temp Motul. At the very least, you bleed the calipers until you can't see any air bubbles in the lines. you can always bleed out more.. depends how much you have/buy to start with. Start with the wheel farthest from the resevoir.

 

Side question re flush/bleed: do you put new fluid IN the motive bleeder or do you use it to pressurize the system, then add fluid directly to the reservoir once at the min line and re-pressurize? read about both approaches. Also what pressure do I build on the motive gauge? thanks.

Regarding brakes: the posts on the board are all over the place. Pagid yellows upfront and blacks in back seem to be the most popular combo - but will require swapping in out, which I'm just not ready to go for. I dont have a garage and no place to work on the car... Almost all posts say either go Pagid or go home, there is no compromise I guess *I* am looking and willing to accept this compromise - I need to know what it is (Hawk pads?).

 

Unless you want to do it on your own I would not use the motive bleeder I would use my bud to pump the brakes for me as you get a much better bleed but if you insist on using the pressurized system I believe 15 psi is the recommended pressure. There are 2 bleed valves per caliper, 1 on the inside and one on the outside. You will need to remove the wheel to access the inner valve. I believe the wrench you require is 11 mm. Have some one press down on the brake pedal, open the valve, when the pedal hits the floor close the valve, release the pedal, repeat as necessary.

Whether you use the bleeder or a buddy add the fluid to the reservoir. Its easier and cleaner.

At your stage the stock pads will probably suffice until you advance, although they wear fairly rapidly they are fairly user friendly for both track and street. If you want good pads Performance Friciton makes excellent pads that are rotor friendly that I know a lot of people like, Pagid makes what they call their Blue pad, I run it on my street car that my son runs at the track. It is a good compromise but is noisy when used on the street. Hawk also makes a very good pad. Pagid is not your only choice.

 

FWIW, our local PCA chapter requires a brake flush every 6 months [tech form requirement].

When I bleed the brake, I put fluid in the reservoir, not the bleeder bottle. Less mess to clean up.

I run PFC 06s all the time (even on the street). Granted, I pretty much only drive the car to the track and back, and maybe a few times a month...

-td

 

Nobody mentioned it, but, make sure you clean the pad crud out of the holes in the rotors!

 

I was wondering about that... what the proper way to get this done (short of stabbing every hole with a wire hanger end)?

Also, does anyone know the thickness of a new pad and the thickness of the backing plate in mm (for future reference)?

 

Very good advice - it's the same for me.


I use a Motive that is filled with the new fluid. A liter should be enough to do a full flush. What I do:
1) with a suction pump, pull as much fluid as possible out of the reservoir on the master cylinder
2) pour new fluid in Motive, hook it up to reservoir, and pressurize to 15 psi.
3) take empty new-fluid bottle and a little piece of tubing and start with the outside bleeder on the brake caliper farthest away from the master cylinder (by brake line routing)
4) start bleeding and have the old fluid drain through the hose into the bottle - now, I have 4 brakes (8 bleeders) and I know I have a liter of fluid going in, so I kind of "gauge" how much fluid comes out of each caliper. For the 1st rear caliper, you want to take out about 1/3 of a liter (1/4 on first bleeder and a little bit from the 2nd bleeder, since it only has to empty the one side of the caliper)
5) move on to the second rear caliper, starting with the outside bleeder, fill your bottle up so it's just over 1/2 full
6) move to the first front caliper, and fill the bottle up to almost 3/4
7) move to the last caliper and fill the bottle almost all the way up
8) Don't take out exactly a liter if you've sucked fluid out of the reservoir first... You'll be a little short.


A few people have had the tubing on the Motive leak... this can cause an awful mess... and is a good reason not to put fluid in the bleeder. However, I do my fluid flushes on a lift, so I don't want to have to be lowering the car, depressurizing the reservoir, topping it off and starting over so many times... YMMV