stmblaster

I have an itch I have to scratch. For those who have Burmester but also Bose: where is your vocal range located in space (as in where does the singer sound as if he's singing from/ where is the center of the soundstage)? For me the center seems to be somwehere coming from the A pillar on the driver's side or from the direction of the left headlight.

From what I can tell from Cayenne/Taycan and also Panamera that I've driven, the center of the sound should be straight, aligned with the middle of the steering wheel. I am not sure if this is just a limitation of the 718 interior space or if my Burmester is somehow faulty/not tuned right.

I am listening in a Spyder, same behaviour top up or down. Burmester is set to Pure , not sure what Bose's most "unaltered" sound setting is.

fueledbymetal

What are your settings? I'll replicate them on mine next time I'm out and let you know.

stmblaster

Pure, Bass/Treble/Fader/Balance all set to 0, Sound Conditioner On, engine running or not, top up or down, sound via USB from Apple Music (iPod in PCM), iPhone (Settings>Music>Sound Check off - turns on by itself every time)

Xxyion

I don't have either, however I do know that the burmester is tuned to try and make the listener center stage. However you also have to think about reverberation as well as sound dissipation. In your Spyder, in the drivers seat, you have Glass to your left and a big door panel. To your right(this is all assuming left hand drive, just reverse if you aren't), you have a big open space and then above you, is a soft top.

The glass in the car is the most reflective surface. The sound coming from the right side of the car is essentially reflecting right at you, causing a slight imbalance and making it appear as if the majority of sound is coming from your left.
Then consider the soft top which dissipates sound rather than reflects it. So now any sound traveling upwards actually gets quieter. The space to your right effectively does something similar.

Now obviously the techs at Burmester probably do their best to tune for this, however the way they do this is to place a microphone where they assume your head is going to be and then go from there. Your body acts as a sound deadening panel (something sound engineers actually have to consider when mixing music), so there an extra variable there, then consider that in the Spyder, its going to be a bit more cramped compared to your Cayenne or Taycan. Keep in mind as well that both the Cayenne and Taycan are both superior in terms of insulation compared to the Spyder. That does a lot when it comes to sound travel as well. Its also a lot easier to tune.


Now even considering all that, there still is the possibility it wasn't tuned perfectly, and that's why they have balance and fader settings.

I know this was a bit long and not really the answer you are looking for, but I hope it does put into perspective the situation a bit.

stmblaster

Thank you for explaining all of those points. I am aware of the tuning difficulties and cabin limitations but I am blindly hoping this is not it and maybe it's faulty in some way as the sound is both distracting when I drive (I keep looking to the left where the voice comes from - same thing happens with custom built SQ systems with the center in the middle of the dashboard, I keep looking to the right there and it's distracting during driving, for me).

I am also aware the middle speaker is just a midrange (911 gets an AMT tweeter too) and that could cause the issue but my Cayenne doesn't have a central tweeter either and center is still straight ahead.

I did try the balance control but as soon as the center moves to position, the voice is split in two depending on frequency, half of it being straight ahead and half of it in its original A pillar left place.

So I thought maybe if this is how it is then I just have to accept it, otherwise fix it.

Xxyion

Chances are its really just how it is on the car. As I won't have either the Bose, Burmester, or a Spyder I can't really say, but I've also been pretty of the mindset that any car that is not designed for comfort first, will generally have sub-optimal sound quality, regardless how good the speaker system you put in will be. I wonder if this is the reason why the Burmester is not even an option on the GT4

nineball

i agree with most of what you said other than the above. these are still mass produced cars, and speaking as someone who has helped design sound systems for factory vehicles the tune is the same for each one (for a given level of component, i.e. base vs bose vs bur) so if one isn't "tuned perfectly" none of them would be. the balance and fader allow the user some control over the sound but they do not affect the tune for the vehicle (can't change crossover points, time delay, etc). some systems do have different tunes available like my old 535IX - it had options for driver seat, passenger seat or entire vehicle however most of those designs just slightly change the time delay and not much, if anything, else.

music is one of the most user-specific things there is. what sounds awesome to me may sound like absolute garbage to you. i have used processors designed for center channels and i still prefer to run without one. music is after all in stereo, i.e. left and right

i challenge you to come to ohio and sit in my driver's seat, then repeat that statement

Xxyion

Lol I guess I should have added the context of comparable luxury cars. Stock for Stock, you can't tell me that a GT4/Spyder has the same amount of insulation and sound quality as a Porsche Taycan of the same price and assuming same sound systems. One is designed for the driver experience, the other is designed for the comfort of the drive.

Just like how My girlfriends GTI had a superior sound system compared to her GR86. The 86 is designed for the drivers experience, the GTI is designed for sporty comfort while being a practical daily.

But yeah regards to my statement of tuning, I actually don't really know how it works from the factory and I had assumed it was tuned by a sound engineer per vehicle, which upon writing that statement I realize how absurd that would actually be. But I was also coming from that maybe someone had just bumped a button or the robot had a glitch when tuning his sound system or something and he just happened to get a bad apple.

fueledbymetal

I finally had a chance to go for a drive this weekend and after adjusting my settings to yours I felt like the vocal performance was mostly coming from straight ahead of me.

worf928

We have Burmester, Bose, and SSP in the fleet. Sound stage for all - such that it exists - is center or perhaps slightly, very slightly to the left.

Your description suggests that one or more speakers on the right side is inoperative.

If your “audition” of other Porsche models suggests that your Spyder’s stage is lopsidedly left, I think you’re correct, but that’s not as-designed.

This, assuming no recent head injury or sickness that may have effected hearing

VVG

Trying to nuance a soundstage in these cars is, IMO, an exercise in futility and more an audiophile mental exercise than anything real. I have Burmester in my Spyder, but I bought it for clarity and pure punch when driving with the top down. Gotta say, it really delivers.

worf928

Clearly you have never experienced a properly time-aligned system. None of the factory systems are time-aligned to the driver seat.

justbob

I got the one that came with the car. The sound I wanted comes from the rear.
I had the "freebee" on a 2019 Cayenne and it was just fine.
It doesn't make the car worth 10 cents more either.

VVG

My point is simply that these are far from good listening environments where high end car audio can really be appreciated in a nuanced way. A Panamera or Cayenne would be better a better suited Porsche for this. The point of a Burmester in a Spyder is one of clarity and punch at volume. That's it.

worf928

OP’s system is (probably) broken. No nuance there.