And the rear is also bespoke to the GT4/Spyder. Different subframe, etc.

But to the original question: I'd be surprised (as you could do this with the previous generation cars) if you couldn't at least install the GT3 control arms, etc. to be able to get some of the adjustability.

 

Hi Pete/OP,

I really appreciate your detailed writeups. Any chance you would share some similar thoughts on ACC membership? How do you use it? What are the pros and cons? Any experience with track busyness mid-week?

I live in St. Louis. I am not currently a track driver, but I’d like to be. I have sometimes wondered if a membership at a track that worked on my schedule would be better than track days. I definitely need to get more track time under my belt first, but would be very interested in your overall ACC impressions.

Really sorry about your brother BTW. I saw that up in the thread, and I’m not sure anyone acknowledged it. If I lost my sister (also a best friend) it would be profoundly eye opening and bring about some major life changes for me as well. I heard Micheal Lewis say recently, in relation to losing his daughter, “you don’t get to choose what happens in life, but you can choose what you make of it.” Seems like you’ve made something positive of it.

Thanks!

 

Thanks with regards to my Brother! I find it a bit unexpected that that event somehow led me headfirst down this path with the Porsches and eventually the Track, but I will take it, it has been great fun.

Yes, I am happy to share here some thoughts with regards to ACC - it is certainly on-topic to this thread, as the evolution from Street Car guy to Track Car guy and joining ACC goes hand-in-hand with the evolution from the GTS 4.0's to the GT4.

You pay an initiation fee up front and annual dues, just like a Golf Country Club Membership. It is not cheap, but IMO worth it if you are going to use it enough. I go to the track 1-2 days per weekend, weather permitting. My wife has been very supportive, even those weekends where I go both days.

I also take some days off here and there to go during the week. They have three three-day weekends (Fri-Sat-Sun) per year where they do the full-track (which is a blast - 3.6 miles), and also 1 Friday per month. Other than that the days are the North or South tracks. On weekends the Members are on one track, and most of the time the other side of the Track is rented out to a third party for an event, so it can be busy in the parking lots. (That is how they make most of their money, renting out the other side of the track for events, it is a great model for the members, they wouldn't be able to do what they do otherwise.) During the week in my experience it is indeed less crowded. (See the SavageGeese videos - they always film during the week when it is slower.) It is open 6 days per week (closed Mondays) and 7 months per year (beginning of April to end of October).

I love it - all pros and no cons. (No cons other than the giant hole in my wallet where money seems to continue to flow out of - new car, Mods, Brake Pads, Tires, etc. ) It is great! I had made some good friends there already, the "Porsche guys" there seem to connect and hang out together, and there are a lot of Porsche guys there, maybe 1/3 of folks I have run across. We learn a lot from each other.

I haven't done track days elsewhere (yet, I will do so), but it seems to me there is a notion where people are very respectful there in sessions about playing nice with regards to the passing and all that, the fact that everyone there is either a member or guest of a member. Also the Management there does a great job with the managing of the sessions and the people - they run a tight ship, but also it is done very respectfully.

The food is pretty darn good too!

I am getting sucked into it, big time. I bought a Kart for my 18 Year Old Son, he is enjoying that. I may get a rental garage next year and get a Spec Miata to get him out on the Track, and maybe longer term go to a Cayman Built Race Car, as mentioned earlier here in this thread. I have been using Eurosport Racing on premise there for maintenance and mods, they have been doing great work so far.

It is really great and convenient to have everything needed there and just go and have your fun. I am lucky that I live close, it is about 38 minutes when there is no traffic.

 

Thanks a lot, the reply RE: ACC was super helpful!

 

I got the car back with the TPC Rear Toe Link installed and the track alignment done. I went with the TPC 3/4 Track Alignment, 2.7 degrees Front Camber, 2.3 Degrees Rear, Front Toe out .7mm and Rear Toe in 2mm. I left the sway bars in Middle/Middle.

That makes a huge difference, the car is MUCH sharper now, is amazing on the track. It is much more lively, so it does take more skill to properly drive. The Turn In is quicker and more precise. The Boxster obviously tended to Understeer more so than Oversteer. The GT4 with Stock Suspension settings did so as well, but not as much so as the Boxster. The GT4 is now very balanced between Oversteer and Understeer, thus rotates more easily, and you have to manage the Oversteer. It makes it faster, and much more fun.

On the Street, the steering is much dirtier, but not in a way that I don't like it. It makes it fun. It feels pretty darn good on the Street as well, which was a relief.

I also had the RSNV Wing Risers installed, set the Wing to max downforce, and removed the Front Ducts for Balance.

I was on the South Track yesterday. My previous Personal Best on the South was 1:39.82. My first session yesterday I did a 1:35.73. More than 4 seconds of reduction, that is pretty significant between two cars with pretty much the same engine. Of course the primary difference is probably the suspension, followed by stickier tires, and then maybe the differences between the PDK and Manual, and the downforce between the two cars. Of course my skills and experience are improving over time as well, but most of that difference I think was the capabilities of the car, those sessions were about 3 weeks apart. (I have mostly been on the North Track the last few weeks.)

BTW the Rear End instability under heavy braking is greatly reduced now. It is still there a bit if you get on it very abruptly, but with the coaching here and on other threads to back it off a bit and techniques like the 8/10 braking, it is much more manageable now, and much less unsettling.

What a great adventure this has been so far with the GT4, with the focus on the Track! I feel like it is pretty dialed in now. I have more stuff I want to do, but the Track closes for the Winter in 3 weeks, so I will probably hold off until the Spring for the next things.

I did order a set of Pagid Yellows in case I chewed through the Stock ones, and I need to keep an eye on the tires as well, as I will be doing a lot of track days between now and the end of October.

Thanks again to everyone here for all the great inputs here on this thread and many other threads here on how to dial in the GT4 for the Track - I wouldn't have been able to figure what to do without this vast pool of knowledge here. Figuring out what to start with on the Suspension Settings was the toughest, but that 75 page alignment thread was very helpful. I am happy with my initial settings so far. I can also tweak them a bit with more Track time if I feel like I want to.

 

What a journey! I’m glad you’re using the car, and if you can put up with some of the nonsense, this place is a great resource for information and you’ve done a good job of adding to the pool of “good” information.

 

@IL_Pete Cool reading this thread; my recent path has a lot of similarities with yours, including the membership at a track and your thoughts on its benefits, karting, use of the alignment thread for a good starting point. While my GT4 has been phenomenal on the track, and although my resources aren't trivial, I've come to the realization I want a cheaper dedicated track car for a while so I'm willing to really push my learning. For the track I most often run on, a gutted, caged, 2.5l Miata turned up to a little over 200whp with a trick suspension, 100 TW tires, and race buckets is the front runner, tho if a well sorted 987 shows up, I'll spring for it (tried to buy one a couple months ago, but missed it by a couple hours). Plan to get a metric ton of seat time in the 'slow' car over the next couple years (will also still track the GT4, just at a lower rate), then if I didn't start with a well sorted >=3.4 987, I'll prob move into one. Also my experience having 'away games' at other tracks has been pretty positive so far, highly recommend it.

 

Thanks! I have learned so much here that I have felt obligated to "pay it forward" and give back as much information as I can.

Awesome, thanks for sharing that! Similar paths indeed. Your Miata sounds great! The Spec Miata class is huge at Autobahn. There are also some pretty quick modded ones there as well.

Yes, I will very likely be on the prowl for a 987/981 Built Cayman next year as well! My thought is the same, still have a fun Street car like the GT4 and occasionally track it, but put the brunt of the wear on something I don't mind as much hitting hard with the brutality of heavy track use.


Speaking of that, my stock Dunlops on the GT4 are toast already, unfortunately. They still have a good amount of tread life left of course, but the that first weekend before getting the suspension dialed in, I crushed the outside edge of the left front tire and it is chunking off. The same thing happened with my friend's 981 Built Cayman with stock suspension with brand new Bridgestone RE-71RS's. We both flipped them to get a little more time out of them.

But interesting timing in that regard - I am turning in the Boxster 25 this week to the Dealer, so I can snag my beloved 19" HREs and outfit those with some good track tires. I am excited to put those on the GT4, that will be the final mod of the fall build here. I love those wheels, and they have been a consistent part of the journey across the Cayman GTS 4.0 and the Boxster 25, the mod that has sort of "made it mine" and made it unique, coming soon on my third 718 4.0. Will post pics when I get those on later this week!

I am going to throw some All Seasons on the Stock Wheels for the Off-Season for Street, and use the HREs ongoing for the Track. (I had Michelin PA5 Snows on the Cayman last Winter, and I didn't like the Tire Squirm I got from those under heavy acceleration.)

 

So "Phase 1" of the build is pretty much complete now - I got the HRE's on the car. Only two remaining things here this fall are to get the Pagid Yellows on, and Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's on for the remainder of the season. The Rear Pads are toast as of this morning, they are getting replaced as we speak. The Fronts aren't in yet, but the Stock Fronts still have a little bit of life left in them.

I really dig the HRE's on the GT4! With the wider offsets they give it a beefier stance. And they are my unique thing for my 718's, across all three of them now.












I am kind of bummed that the Stock Wheels will be going back on in early November, with All Seasons as mentioned above.

"Phase 2" of the ongoing build is being planned for over the Winter.

Another interesting thing from this morning - I had the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S's on the HRE's this morning. Not intentionally, I was stuck with that as the Stock Dunlop Fronts were shredded on the outsides, and I am awaiting the Cup 2's. It was a good science experiment. The 4S's were okay on the Boxster, good enough for 22 Track Days and 50 Sessions. (Earlier in the season I wasn't going as fast, was still learning and building up to where I am now, so they lasted a long time. They are near the end of their life now.) But they were not at all good on the GT4. It goes back to that thing where the Boxster is biased to Understeer, so when I overcooked it on a turn, I did some Plow Understeer and it cost me time, but was fairly controlled all things considered. But with the GT4 being dialed in right in between Understeer and Oversteer, the behavior on the GT4 was completely different. With my brain now programmed for the extra grip of the GT4, that suspension setup and the Dunlops, I went out at that pace - and the tires just said "no". I lost grip when pushing too hard. Not as much so gradually, but more abruptly than with the Boxster, and a lot of the time in the rear. The tires were a little overinflated when heated up this morning, which didn't help. I had a rough first session, slid all over the place, mid-session I got the Brake Pad alert, and then right after that my Garmin fell off the windshield. I surrendered and went in. On a second session, I didn't push it as hard, didn't slide around as much, and it was better. The net of is that I was about 3 seconds slower in the best laps between the Dunlops and the 4S's. I would never consider the 4S's again as a "Track Tire". A friend of mine went through the same progression here on his 992 C4S, replaced the stock P-Zeros with 4S's, and didn't like them, went to Cup 2's and likes those much better.

Hopefully I make out better with regards to the wear on the Cup 2's than I did with the Dunlops. I did do 3 Track Days and 8 Sessions on the Dunlops without the Track Alignment, which is what caused the Front outside edges to chunk out, so I am confident the Cup 2's will last better than the Dunlops. (They hopefully will arrive on Friday.)

Learning a lot!

An interesting side note this - if my lap time improvement was 4-5 seconds from Boxster to GT4, and the tires were ~3 seconds of that, does that mean that the remaining 2 seconds was the rest of the difference? So if you take a 4.0 GTS and put Cup 2's or equivalent on them, it is pretty close to a GT4? I would think so.

That goes to show you how awesome the GTS's are. If you don't want the big wing on your Street car, get an extra set of wheels with Cup 2's and it will be awesome on the track. Maybe add some adjustable suspension and a Tune for good measure to close the gap even further. I am very happy with my GT4 and have no regrets - but also I loved my GTS's, and that thought has crossed my mind, that I could have just modded those and gotten pretty close to the GT4. Now my use case is changing, I will rely more so on the Macan GTS for the DD and the GT4 will mostly be to and from the track and on the track, and the occasional country road drive.

 

Yeah but those last 2 seconds are also a lot bigger than the first three!

And just wait until you start getting down to tenths! You need more than that "new math" to be able to explain why the last two tenths is actually significantly larger than the first 5!

 

 

Hi David!

Nice to hear from you here. I agree, those wheels look amazing on the car, and they really complete the Build! With the Wing Risers and those 19" Wheels with more offset and beefier sidewalls, it looks much more so a Race Car than a stock GT4.

I will follow with you offline - I think my Track has a photographer we can use, I will speak to them this week. Of course the pics have to be at the Track!

-Pete

 

Update here - Phase 1 of the build is FINALLY complete!

I got the Front Pagid Yellow Pads on (the Rears were already on) Thursday, and new Cup 2's (255 Front, 305 Rear) on on Friday evening. Got out on the track with it yesterday, and 1 session so far this morning.

For the first time, it feels like a proper GT car on the Track. The Brake Pads make a HUGE difference. As do the tires. I am sure the Stock Dunlops were also good, but I had one weekend with those without the Track Alignment, and one with, but with the Stock Brake Pads.

The Stock Brake Pads are crap, and to make matters worse, tracking melted them and got residue on the Rotors, which caused Brake Judder. Having the Brake Judder combined with the trashed Dunlops, and later the very worn 4SPS's from the Boxster, was quite unsettling and frustrating, for that week or two where I was experiencing those issues.

Now all is good! Very high confidence coming into turns and having the Brake power to scrub off speed as needed. The Pagid's quickly wore the residue off the Rotors, no more Brake Judder. The Grip is fantastic now with the new Cup 2's, and I have figured out how to optimize the temps for the Track. The Balance is perfect too, the car rotates great and is very neutral with regards Understeer versus Oversteer. Very little Understeer, unless I overcook it into a corner (which I don't do nearly as often now that I have proper braking capability), and Understeer happens modestly on command blasting out of corners. Complete Nirvana in that regard!

Lessons learned here - if I had it to do over again, I would have taken the Stock Rotors and Pads off Day 1, and saved them for when selling the car down the road. Same for the stock tires, I would have saved those and went to this setup with the Cup 2's on the 19" HREs. As mentioned previously, I would have gone 265 on the fronts, but I would have had to do the Tarett Camber Plates to do that. I will do that in the Spring. I would have done that Day 1 also, knowing what I know now.

No worries, everything is a learning process - I am glad to have the car running as it should on the track now! The season ends here in a couple of weeks, kind of a bummer. But glass-half-full, I am very glad I was able to squeeze some good time in before the season end. And then I can start planning Phase 2 over the Winter.

 

Guessing we're running the same tire combo, I'm 255, 305 on 19s. My Cup2s have been pretty good, really want to run SC3R if they ever come in stock. If they aren't around when my next set of Cup2 are burnt off (prob in the next couple months), I'm going to try out some RT660. WRT the camber plates, I did them and like the fact that I got the -3.0 I wanted while having zero issues with rub, and pretty sure I have room enough to run 265 RT660. FWIW, I didn't see any 265/35 Cup2 available, so I'd prob not run the 265 Cup2. You running the Porch, Ford, or generic 305s on the back? I've run Porch (N0) and the generic when the Porch went backorder, substantially different tread depths. I think the non Porsche may be stickier but way less rubber to burn off -> shorter lived.

FWIW, I pulled off my OEM brakes almost immediately on delivery, put them in storage... tho the way things are looking, this is headed toward permanent car for me so I may put them on the market soon.

 

Thanks for clarifying with regards to the differences between the Porsche versions and other versions!

I checked just now, the Fronts are a Mercedes Benz Tire, and the Rears are a Ford Tire. The Rears did show outer edge wear quickly in an unexpected way, after 1 track day. I asked my shop about it and they said that the wider ones do that, and not to be concerned. It is a Ford tire, I assume that would be for a Mustang and be more optimized for driving in a straight line versus cornering on a Track. So perhaps that makes sense. (But the traction is very impressive IMO - so I think it is more of a wear thing as you said.) I was very limited on what I could get quickly, in a fitment that I would be happy with on 19" Wheels. (I wanted something recommended on the Apex Racing Fitment Guide.)

When I go to 265/305, I will likely go SC3's, if I can find them.

I had another track day yesterday on the Cup 2's - they were amazing, once properly warmed up. We were on the Full Track for their special October Season-Closing three day weekend - that is a blast, 3.6 Miles. My instructor there let me know that I had posted the fastest lap time of the day for any street car, and that that was pretty impressive for a newbie. (The cars faster were all Race Cars.) So I guess I am making some progress. In the spirit of humility, I still have a lot to learn - but I am happy with the progress that I have made this year.

Having proper Brake Pads and Tires combined with the Track Alignment is really great! I am loving this car on the Track.

I am grateful that I was able to get the GT4 setup and get some quality time with it before the season ended at Autobahn. (11 Track Days and 26 Sessions in the GT4 since Sep 30, but only 2 Days and 4 Sessions since 100% dialed in.)