jmartpr

You are going the same direction as I was last year.......looking for that high-pitch sound as close as possible to GT3.
If you still want to replace the muffler you need to consider only those that mix both banks in both, open and closed valve position.
It's the only way to change the tone closer to what you are looking for.
In this camp you will find the Dundon Crack Pretzel, The upcoming Dundon muffler, Cargraphic Race, Kline, Soul, JCR, 9meinster, etc.
Anything else that dumps each individual bank without mixing with valve open will sound horrible.

The problem lies in that there's isn't too much space as the exhaust exit are on the sides (not center like 981 GT4 and GT3s), so a lot of the manufacturers just go ahead a build the simplest design like the crack pretzel, JCR, etc...with very little muffling of the sound.
Note on the Kline....the feedback on RL is very good but you do need to use their muffler with their OAP as they invert the routing on the valves.
This system also has some resonator on the OAP which I think are a must if you plan to delete the cats at the header...but on the Dundon the cats are in that exact location.
This means that with Dundon the best option would be something with a muffler instead of tubing with resonators.

THe Dundon Crack Pretzel will sound great but at the expense of lots of drone between 2-3K rpm, same with JCR.
The Cargraphic, Soul, and other muffled options do attenuate the sound and drone a bit but it will still be there because you already replaced the other 2 compenents.
But sound and drone tolerance is very personal so you may have to listen to videos but I recommend always in person,

josephr25

I have the JCR Superlight. I have driven on the freeway for hours with it but it is definitely not recommended. Not only bad for your ears but you'll get tired a lot faster.

I now use earplugs on long drives.

jmartpr

Which version? I would only consider the one with cats and resonators and even with that it will be loud if you have headers.
But the problem the OP has is that Dundon changed the connection position to the header so non of the other cat back options will work. Mufflers yes.

josephr25

https://jcr-developments.com/collect...ight-race-pipe

I have the stock manifolds and cats.

My car isn't a DD but still I would not recommend driving long distances w/o having earplugs handy. Other than that people love the exhaust. I

Avera

Correct @jmartpr . . . replacing Dundon headers/OAPs is a non-starter for ME.

I will 'live' with the headers/OAPs and valves open before any option that would require removing the Dundon parts.

You might already know this, but holding the valves open in my current setup is associated with considerable drone low in the rev range, but I think its worst around 2-3K RPM.

I wonder how much worse the drone would be with the Crack Pretzel?

JCR seems to produce the best tone of non-Dundon aftermarket options available. However, JCR is not an option for ME because I am not willing to wire that kind of money overseas with the current state of worldly affairs. Plus, I am not sure the drone would be much better than with the Crack Pretzel?

John at Soul seems like a world-class dude, but my online impression of SOUL is that their options produce a rumble/lower pitch tone than I am after.

I could go on and will admit ALL of my experiences have been limited to online video/audio that I KNOW is far less than ideal. I have done my best to explore options in-person, but finding anyone local with a GT4 having Dundon headers/OAPs with Crack Pretzel or other muffler option approaches the realm of impossibility.

Regarding the Dundon valved muffler option, Dundon has told me they wont even begin the project until they have a GT4RS, which they currently do not . . . who knows how long things will take once they do have a GT4RS? Dundon wants to build a valved muffler option that fits both the GT4 and GT4RS.

So, again, I started this thread to see who has lived with the Crack Pretzel. Even though you have not, your feed back has been fantastic.

Thank you again

Avera

enduro

When I was on the horn with them a couple months ago, Dundon told me they had a running prototype and there was a vid on their site of it, have you spoken with them recently? WRT wiring JCR money... I was a bit apprehensive, but I've seen nothing from excellence from them, had two purchases and needed one modified part (for a while they shipped without a required bracket for PDK, and JCR's response was top notch). Unsure if things could be upended with more recent events, but at the moment, I have had great experiences with both Dundon and JCR, head and shoulders above some other vendors.

Avera

Thank you @enduro

I have heard nothing but great things about JCR . . . my apprehension pertains to the state of worldly affairs, as well as not knowing if the JCR drone would be any better (or worse) than with the Crack Pretzel

Yes, I communicated with Dundon last week . . . Jamie/Ted told me they are waiting to get a GT4RS before the project moves forward. Perhaps they have a prototype they have tried on the GT4? Regardless, it seems to be some time out before the product reaches the streets.

Avera

Jamie@dundonmotorsports

Can't compare one vehicle to another, the overall length of the exhaust on a 997 GT3 with a cats and a mini crack is way different than a 718 with a crack pretzel. Universes different...

Jamie@dundonmotorsports

Yes we have a prototype and tested it and it was stupid expensive to mfg. The GT4 and 4RS have inlets to the respective mufflers in different orientations (as we expected when Porsche said the 4RS muffler would be titanium). With this in mind we'll get a 4RS (soon to be secured, potentially as early as October) to get this muffler project across the line. In both 321 and Titanium...

Avera

Thank you @Jamie@dundonmotorsports

I recall your stating in an interview that you have seen titanium mufflers fail after a single track setting, so I am assuming the 321 will be directed toward trackers and the titanium toward the streets . . . and the price will reflect durability of materials?

As you can see, I am doing my best to not be one of those enthusiasts who ends up having you restock a Crack Pretzel

As I have alluded to previously, you are very honest in stating the Crack Pretzel is 'insane' . . . still, I think I might be one of the few who embraces the glory in the face of some drone.

Finding other enthusiasts living with a Crack Pretzel is seemingly like finding a unicorn, but I am doing my best to get real world experience.

Thank you for chiming into the discussion

Avera

jdmporscheguy

Nope, I never sold it. I have it still and love it. I am the loudest (and fastest) GT4 in Canada

jdmporscheguy

I see my name thrown around a few times so I will reply.

@Avera Yes, I have the FULL DUNDON RACE SETUP (CATLESS STRAIGHT PIPE). My car is not a daily driver by any means. I do not track it at all and will never track it. Living in Canada, I only drive the car between May and Nov and store it for winter on Nov 1. I generally do a lot of spirited driving on twisty back roads, highway and other cruises with friends and cars & coffee meets. I generally take my car out 1-2 days a week in the summer but there are times where I won't drive it for 2-3 weeks because of my schedule. It's babied, washed before and after each drive, no food or drink is allowed inside the car at any time by myself or any passengers, etc. My instagram is @beastmodetheory_ if you want to check our more. The "PROMO" videos on Dundon's website for the crack pretzel are my car with the full setup (race headers + crack pretzel) and the videos don't do it justice... in real life, it is proably 10x or 20x louder than what is portrayed on video. @Jamie@dundonmotorsports knows me by now and can tell you I am big Dundon lover even though this is my first Porsche and my first Dundon setup. My goal for the car was to be the absolute loudest and most obnoxious GT4 in Canada and I have definitely succeeded in that pursuit.

I have done "Exhaust Competition" with both FULL SOUL RACE system (competition headers and race exhaust) and full catless IPE system with real decibel readers and my car is proven louder than both of them with readings to back it up. Like, CONSIDERABLY LOUDER. People plug their ears louder LOL... I will say though, those 2 setups do sound really nice and more "growly/throaty" than the Dundon. My car just sounds like Symphonic CHAOS


On to the review:

I will start off by saying, if you want a really high pitch GT3RS sounding exhaust, the JCR Full Titanium OAP + Rear + Inconel Race Manifolds is the way to go, not Dundon. Inconel will never be as high pitch as Titanium. I've had people say my car in low RPM sounds "hollow". But I know people who lose power with JCR and don't care because of the sound so it depends your priorities.

I absolutely love my setup. There is nothing out there that sounds like it at any RPM but especially EPIC at 6k-8k RPM. I have had GT3RS owners that drove behind me on backroads come up to me after and say "I have never heard the sounds that your GT4 makes". Going through tunnels by yourself legitimately sounds like 30 F1 racecars driving by all at once. It's absolutely insane. I have yet to take my car out for a drive and not get a thumbs up from a random person or have some random person talk to me at a red light. Driving by the highschools around my house is a teenage boy's wet dream. I can't tell you the number of times people record or take pics of my car coming. I started to play a little mini game with myself and see how many head turns or reactions I could get just coming up to pedestrians and seeing if they look, and 8/10 times, it successfully gets a reaction. If i had a nickel for every time someone has compared my car to an F1 racecar, I'd have probably a few dollars!

Cars on the highway move to the right lane when they see and hear me coming behind them because it's that intimidating.

The startup is a show every time. It's insanely loud and stays insanely loud for about 30 seconds until it warms up. Every startup has loud pops and bangs like gunshots. I've actually set off another car's alarm once backing into a spot at a car meet. It was awesome. The first few times my parents heard the car start up, they thought I was actually revving the car when I started it up not knowing that that's how it sounds just turning on!

The setup has no valves, however the loudness is controllable through your foot on the pedal. What this means is you essentially can keep it "reasonably loud" at all times if you want to. The key is to be at ~3100 RPM in any gear. Between 3000 and 3100 RPM is the "quiet zone" so for example, on one of the cruises, a cop started following me and was behind me for 10 minutes running my plate and the entire time I was in 2nd gear keeping it at ~55km/h which would be ~3000 RPM and after he ran my plates and followed me for 10 minutes, he pulled off and left. As long as you keep the car in the quiet zone, it's fine.

That brings me to the next point... the car DOES NOT LIKE BEING CRUISED ON AT OR BELOW ~3100 RPM AT ALL. DO NOT HOLD IT THERE FOR A LONG TIME. It makes all sorts of weird noises, the exhaust sounds like it's holding it's breath and every once in awhile it will bellow out a "BLAAAAT" but not a good sounding one.. more of a "REV ME HARDER OR I WILL DIE" kind of sound lol I was on a cruise one time and we were on a really busy street and I had to keep it at 3000 RPM or my ears would explode because as you know, 2500-2800 RPM will actually cause hearing loss if you stay in that range for longer than 10 seconds. the drone is insane. It kept making the the BLAAAAT noise every few minutes... was not cool but oh well.

Say goodbye to your gas milage as well. Being forced to drive over 3k RPM consumes sooooooooooooooo much more gas than a stock GT4 that can cruise at 2000 or 2500 RPM. I literally have to fill my car up every time I take it out for a few hours if I am doing backroad twisty cruises. On highway it's better but you need to be going 130km/h+ to avoid drone in 6th so you either are breaking the law or driving in 5th gear on highways.

My immediate neighbors like me, but most of my street HATE me. They complain to each other about my car ALL THE TIME. The startup is so loud half of my 1/4 mile long street can hear me when I turn it on. I'm a little more considerate when driving the car at night as I will put it in neutral and just coast as much as I can until I reach my garage or I will put it in 1st gear and tap the gas just under 1.2k rpm if its later than like 11pm. You can hear my car in a 4-5 block or mote radius when I am WOT.

I am not allowed on most tracks with my car even though I don't track. I am allowed on only Toronto Motorsport Park. Everywhere else won't let my car on without silencers I am told.

I've also been restricted/blackballed from participating in any future PCA (Porsche Club of America) cruises as I've apparently have so many complaints about the loudness of my car by other porsche owners on every cruise I have been on.

80-90% of people absolutely HATE driving behind me on cruises. It's that loud and I'm not even at 8K RPM half the time haha . I've had lambos, ferraris, maclerans all pull off and let 3-4 cars pass them just so they can get away from the loudness. Or they speed ahead like 3 cars in front. Any sort of convertible will most definitely despise you and wish you were dead.

Most "civilians" or car enthusiasts like the car and how it sounds on the road, but a lot of the PORSCHE community including all the local shops that work on my car for oil changes/installs/etc absolutely HATE my car. One shop refuses to turn it on, they push it in and out of the shop LOL. When I got my car dyno'd, the shop wouldn't even dyno it in 4th gear like you would any other car because he said it was too long and even though I would have gained an extra 4-5 whp, he didn't wanna go through it. Their entire shop including the front desk had to wear industrial earmuffs while my car was on the dyno.

Inside the car when you have windows up, it is completely and totally reasonable and sounds amazing. I have full conversations with passengers, listen to music fine. I can't take bluetooth phone calls though because it's so loud I can't hear the other person properly. My friend with a JCR spyder drove my car for 10 minutes and he loved the loud pops and bangs and said its fine inside the car too. His review was "above 4k RPM, your car sounds awesome". If you have your windows down and you rev in between 2 cars or somewhere that has echo, RIP YOUR EARS is all I will say.


Honestly, I love my setup and anyone with a GT4/Spyder that has driven my car can immediately feel the power increase even on top of their own modded GT4s. It's made the entire car a whole experience every time I drive it. Again, there is nothing quite like it. It scared wildlife and humans alike! At low RPM it doesn't sound too great, but as soon as you get it above 3.5k, its awesome and 6k-8k rpm is EPIC. If you shift below 6k RPM, it pops and bangs and it also pops and bangs on downshifts really loudly.

Overall my experience has been very positive, besides the fact that no one wants to be behind me on cruises, majority of porsche owners hate my car, and I essentially have a "curfew" if I don't want to be a total d1ckhead to my neighbors lol.

I will say one thing though, if you plan on using this setup for a daily driver or you go on a lot of long road trips, this is not for you. I would not have this setup if it was my daily. It's too insane for a daily. For a fun weekend warrior, it's perfect for me.


I'm sure there's more I could say but It's late and my brain is half asleep


Hope this has been helpful. If you are in Canada or ever visit Toronto, hit me up and I'd be happy to show you in person.


TDLR: Dundon Headers + Crack Pretzel is an amazing sounding setup as well as really powerful but not for 99% of people. You really have to be a "loud car lover" to appreciate it and it helps if you have thick skin because you will get TONS of good and bad attention anywhere from "it sounds amazing" to "it sounds like ****". Without saying numbers, I am in stock GT4RS HP numbers with dyno sheet to prove it (GT4 TQ will never be anywhere close to GT4RS TQ so that's irrelevant). Of course, I won't post any of that on here as every dyno is different and I'm not going to start a HP war since there is many threads for that already haha.

RajuPatel

I agree with him entirely.. it is not for the faint hearted.. however i have never experienced any pops and bangs.. and neither a drop in mileage. Having said that, i always keep the engine on the boil to avoid the drone.. this was before the install of the Crack Pretzel and more importantly thereafter..

kk2

Glad you’re enjoying it.

Avera

@jdmporscheguy . . . what GREAT feedback! Thank you!

So you are telling me it is loud

DECIBELS

Something stood out to me right out of the gate in your excellent summary . . . you indicate you have the full Dundon RACE setup (CATLESS straight pipe)

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I THINK an ENORMOUS amount of your volume comes from the RACE headers and CATLESS OAPs.

HOWEVER, by contrast, I have the Dundon STREET headers that come with CATTED OAPs

So, this raises a new question for me, which is how much louder is the RACE vs STREET header/OAP setup? My inclination is to say the RACE setup is a LOT louder.

Even with the anticipated enormous jump in volume from RACE to STREET setups, you indicate you can still manage to keep things civil with some throttle discipline

TONE

Although limited in number, I have yet to hear anyone indicate tone of the full setup is anything short of fabulous as you climb through the rev range.

You reference the full JCR setup as potentially producing a better tone according to subjective preferences, but I am 100% committed to keeping the Dundon headers/OAPs.

DRONE

Likewise – and to be expected with any straight-pipe setup – there will be drone. Is the drone worse with the full RACE setup compared to the STREET setup? I suspect it is?

Regardless, even my current setup (headers/OAPs/stock muffler with valves held open) drones considerably in the lower RPM range. I drive around the drone for the most part and it does not bother me to any significant extent.

CONCLUSION

Your summary served to convince me I could never live with the full Dundon RACE setup

However, I have the STREET headers/OAPs and remain quite eager to hear feedback (in cabin audio during routine daily driving) from @RajuPatel l, who I believe has the STREET headers/OAPs/Crack Pretzel setup

At this point I am also committed to either (1) keeping the stock muffler; (2) getting the Crack Pretzel; or (3) waiting for the valved Dundon option.

Thank you again @jdmporscheguy for some incredible feedback. Greatly appreciated.

Avera