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Thanks for the writeup. I am actually considering quite a few of your mods for my GTS. Wondering if you can share any more impressions on GT4 vs numeric shifter compared to the GTS shifter. This will probably be the first of the above mods I do. The GT4 SSK is tempting for being half the price. Any thoughts on which you would prefer for track use?
I just did the GT4 shifter in mine. Its a good upgrade and surprised is not offered as a factory option on the GTS. The GT4 shifter still has some play in it, but you need that for a road car. I found the throw from 2nd > 3rd too long with the GTS shifter and the GT4 shifter solves that.
After reviews of the Numeric, I felt that the GT4 shifter was the more sensible option in a GTS. I have tried the Numeric 1.5 spring in a 911 and for me it was too much for a road car. 2.0 spring may be better suited.
I also did the GT4 shifter only because I got one cheap. But now I don't know if I'll bother going with the Numeric. I'd like to try one first. But the 1"shorter GT4 shifter really is nice.
I just did the GT4 shifter in mine. Its a good upgrade and surprised is not offered as a factory option on the GTS. The GT4 shifter still has some play in it, but you need that for a road car. I found the throw from 2nd > 3rd too long with the GTS shifter and the GT4 shifter solves that.
After reviews of the Numeric, I felt that the GT4 shifter was the more sensible option in a GTS. I have tried the Numeric 1.5 spring in a 911 and for me it was too much for a road car. 2.0 spring may be better suited.
What is involved in converting the GTS shifter to a GT4 spec, is it just the actual gear stick that is being changed, or other components too? My GTS is in for its first service and whilst I was waiting for a lift at the dealer I sat in a manual Spyder and felt the shifter, it's way more suited to what I want. I'm happy to hear it can be done and am interested to know what the process is. I also feel the 2 > 3 and then 3 back down to 2 has way too much travel.
Did some searching, is it just a matter of ordering part number 981.424.010.20 and getting the dealer to fit it (for those of us who can't DIY it) to convert GTS into GT4 shift motion?
What is involved in converting the GTS shifter to a GT4 spec, is it just the actual gear stick that is being changed, or other components too? My GTS is in for its first service and whilst I was waiting for a lift at the dealer I sat in a manual Spyder and felt the shifter, it's way more suited to what I want. I'm happy to hear it can be done and am interested to know what the process is. I also feel the 2 > 3 and then 3 back down to 2 has way too much travel.
Easy install. Involves about 1-2hrs of taking the centre console apart.
Did some searching, is it just a matter of ordering part number 981.424.010.20 and getting the dealer to fit it (for those of us who can't DIY it) to convert GTS into GT4 shift motion?
What is involved in converting the GTS shifter to a GT4 spec, is it just the actual gear stick that is being changed, or other components too? My GTS is in for its first service and whilst I was waiting for a lift at the dealer I sat in a manual Spyder and felt the shifter, it's way more suited to what I want. I'm happy to hear it can be done and am interested to know what the process is. I also feel the 2 > 3 and then 3 back down to 2 has way too much travel.
It’s the assembly below/behind the shift ****. Basically it is the unit where the shift cables are attached to. Probably will need to disassemble the center console pieces to replace the unit
Wow you've driven a lot of these cars now. I think having a manual Boxster 25 and pdk GT4 would be an ideal pairing - hope you can keep both!
Honestly if I would have driven all of these cars beforehand like you had I would have bought the GT4, but then I probably wouldn't have done all these mods so I am kind of glad I didn't. I'm also not taking the mods off and trading - it was hard enough getting all this stuff in the mail and to the shop etc. I don't know how you take everything on and off so easily!
I hear you are getting your Kline system back. I really think you should do the Kline headers. The entire system is complimentary and there is absolutely no drone with the headers and valves open. I don't think you necessarily need the tune if you get the headers. The car will be fast enough at that point, but the tune isn't that expensive and it does add some power and flatten out the torque curve. Now that I have it I wouldn't want to go back. The check engine light did eventually go on for me though after the headers and I had to get the tune to get rid of it. Still worth it.
I am likely going to regear my car as the final mod in the next few months. I think it will be complementary with everything else and at that point it will be a finished project. I'll let you know how it goes and if I think it was actually worth the steep price of entry.
I think the difference in our perception of the numeric shifter is because I have the cables and also less importantly the 2mm spring. I bet the cables make it feel completely different. I would love to try the 1.5mm spring with no cables for comparison at some point just to feel the difference.
My perception of sound inside the cars is that the stock GT4 sounds better than the stock GTS although the stock GTS didn't sound bad. It just didn't sound good enough that I would have left it alone. I think the sound deadening in the GTS keeps out almost all of the unwanted sounds but also blunts some of the natural character of the exhaust. When I heard the stock GT4 I thought that I could have easily left it alone and been happy. It could also be though that as soon as I hopped in the GT4 I was almost immediately revving it out (Thanks Incursion and driving it like it should be driven. I don't think I did a lot of spirited drives in the stock GTS before changing out the exhaust. My current setup is pretty darn loud and raw throughout all rev ranges. I'm not eager to remove any sound deadening in order to increase the volume, but you have me thinking that strategically removing some of the sound deadening could improve the tone of the sound that gets through the cabin. I may look into that a bit more. The way it is now, I get a lot of good induction sound, a lot of good exhaust sound, a completely different exhaust sound with the windows down, and not a lot of unwanted sounds from outside or NVH. I don't really want to mess with that combination too much more and definitely don't want to try out a new system. My car sounds way different than the GT4 especially in the low and mid RPM ranges. Up top they are both loud and pleasant but down low since my valves are open I hear a lot more of the exhaust.
Thanks for the detailed reply!
Lots to reply to here. As much as I love the GTS versions and the many advantages for a street car, the GT4 and Spyder are very appealing to me for that extra rawness in the cabin, for what I love about the 718 4.0's, that feeling really trumps everything else for me, so I would agree with regards to your comment of "Honestly if I would have driven all of these cars beforehand like you had I would have bought the GT4". Same goes for me for GT4 versus Cayman GTS 4.0. For Spyder versus Boxster, it is a tougher call for me, but I was a bit shocked in comparing the Boxster 25 back to back with @tdlondon 's new Spyder, how the rawness in the cabin was still much more appealing in the Spyder, even with the top down.
With regards to keeping the B25 and the GT4 - I have decided to for sure take delivery of the GT4, I will compare both for the rest of the year at least, probably into next year, and see how they compare. As I mentioned I switched the GT4 order from Manual to PDK at the last minute. If I kept it as a Manual, I think it would have been possible that I would have sold the B25 and kept just the GT4. But now that the GT4 is a PDK, I think that is less likely, while a PDK will be interesting and fun to try out, I don't think I could be without a Manual 718 4.0.
One other development for me is that I have just recently joined Autobahn Country Club in Joliet, IL. If any of you watch the SavageGeese YouTube Channel, that is where they do all of their track tests. It is a "Country Club" like a Golf Country Club Membership, except with a Race Track (2 actually, plus a Karting Track). It is a pretty cool and unique thing, I feel fortunate that it happens to be so close to me. 7 Months per year (due to nasty Chicago Winters) and 5 days per week, unlimited track access. I have done two days there so far, and will be going there frequently as time and weather allows. With that - the GT4 in a PDK makes a lot more sense for me now, I will use that as my primary track car once it comes in and I get it fully set up (PPF and Ceramic, and Mods). What will be interesting to see is how much I like the GT4 as a street car versus the B25 (and particularly PDK versus Manual, and the other aspects like the Convertible aspect and more street-friendly features of the B25), and whether that makes me want to keep the B25, and for how long.
With regards to the Kline - I decided not to put that on the B25, I am going to keep the JCR Silenced + Soul Resonated OAPs on the B25, and save the Kline for the GT4. I will consider Kline Headers (and a tune) down the road for the GT4. (There is no noise limit at Autobahn. )
Awesome with regards to you planning to due the gearing change! I think that is a killer mod for the Manual 4.0's, and no doubt transforms the car. I would consider that myself on the B25 if I decide to keep it longer term.
With regards to the sound inside the cabin between the GTS's the GT Cars - I completely agree with your comments, particularly "I think the sound deadening in the GTS keeps out almost all of the unwanted sounds but also blunts some of the natural character of the exhaust" and "completely different exhaust sound with the windows down, and not a lot of unwanted sounds from outside or NVH" - I think that is the tradeoff, you get less road noise inside the GTS's (which is perhaps desirable to some sometimes), at the expense of the Exhaust Sound being muffled if the windows are up. Versus in the GT cars more of everything comes through, all the time. That is more exciting, but does wear you out mentally more quickly. Pros and cons and differences between the models.
Lots to reply to here. As much as I love the GTS versions and the many advantages for a street car, the GT4 and Spyder are very appealing to me for that extra rawness in the cabin, for what I love about the 718 4.0's, that feeling really trumps everything else for me, so I would agree with regards to your comment of "Honestly if I would have driven all of these cars beforehand like you had I would have bought the GT4". Same goes for me for GT4 versus Cayman GTS 4.0. For Spyder versus Boxster, it is a tougher call for me, but I was a bit shocked in comparing the Boxster 25 back to back with @tdlondon 's new Spyder, how the rawness in the cabin was still much more appealing in the Spyder, even with the top down.
With regards to keeping the B25 and the GT4 - I have decided to for sure take delivery of the GT4, I will compare both for the rest of the year at least, probably into next year, and see how they compare. As I mentioned I switched the GT4 order from Manual to PDK at the last minute. If I kept it as a Manual, I think it would have been possible that I would have sold the B25 and kept just the GT4. But now that the GT4 is a PDK, I think that is less likely, while a PDK will be interesting and fun to try out, I don't think I could be without a Manual 718 4.0.
One other development for me is that I have just recently joined Autobahn Country Club in Joliet, IL. If any of you watch the SavageGeese YouTube Channel, that is where they do all of their track tests. It is a "Country Club" like a Golf Country Club Membership, except with a Race Track (2 actually, plus a Karting Track). It is a pretty cool and unique thing, I feel fortunate that it happens to be so close to me. 7 Months per year (due to nasty Chicago Winters) and 5 days per week, unlimited track access. I have done two days there so far, and will be going there frequently as time and weather allows. With that - the GT4 in a PDK makes a lot more sense for me now, I will use that as my primary track car once it comes in and I get it fully set up (PPF and Ceramic, and Mods). What will be interesting to see is how much I like the GT4 as a street car versus the B25 (and particularly PDK versus Manual, and the other aspects like the Convertible aspect and more street-friendly features of the B25), and whether that makes me want to keep the B25, and for how long.
With regards to the Kline - I decided not to put that on the B25, I am going to keep the JCR Silenced + Soul Resonated OAPs on the B25, and save the Kline for the GT4. I will consider Kline Headers (and a tune) down the road for the GT4. (There is no noise limit at Autobahn. )
Awesome with regards to you planning to due the gearing change! I think that is a killer mod for the Manual 4.0's, and no doubt transforms the car. I would consider that myself on the B25 if I decide to keep it longer term.
With regards to the sound inside the cabin between the GTS's the GT Cars - I completely agree with your comments, particularly "I think the sound deadening in the GTS keeps out almost all of the unwanted sounds but also blunts some of the natural character of the exhaust" and "completely different exhaust sound with the windows down, and not a lot of unwanted sounds from outside or NVH" - I think that is the tradeoff, you get less road noise inside the GTS's (which is perhaps desirable to some sometimes), at the expense of the Exhaust Sound being muffled if the windows are up. Versus in the GT cars more of everything comes through, all the time. That is more exciting, but does wear you out mentally more quickly. Pros and cons and differences between the models.
Autobahn is a cool place and beautiful facility. It's great you're so close! I had a membership but hardly ever used it because it was 90 minutes away. Now I live in Georgia....
As for the NVH comments and comparing it to a GT3 - the last (and first) time I drove a 991.2 GT3, I was shocked at how rough it was. Noisy. Clunky. Rough ride. Nothing like my Spyder - which I find completely tolerable on the street.
Note I'd happily tolerate a GT3 too - but I was surprised at the difference.
Has no one figured out how to make the GTS models sound more like the GT4/Spyder from inside the cabin? It's assumed it comes down to sound deadening, wonder if anyone has figured out what specifically.
Has no one figured out how to make the GTS models sound more like the GT4/Spyder from inside the cabin? It's assumed it comes down to sound deadening, wonder if anyone has figured out what specifically.
I posted that exact question in a different thread:
Here was my post about what my Service Advisor said:
Originally Posted by IL_Pete
Closing the loop here - I did discuss this at length with my Service Advisor, he did a nice job in researching this for me.
This is not easy to do. There is sound deadening on the carpet behind the seats, that is likely the bulk of the deadening. But also the cover of the engine and layer of sound deadening is slightly different between Spyder and Boxster, and none of those 3 parts are cross compatible between the two models.
You could potentially remove some of the sound deadening from the piece behind the seats, approximately 2 inches thick of it. But it is apparently it is built into the carpet piece, all one part. You couldn't remove it ALL, because the trim pieces all around require the thickness to be there to keep the carpet flush to the trim pieces. You could hollow out the middle, but if you did the entire middle except for the edges, it would likely sag/collapse in a weird way, visually. We concluded that perhaps you could remove a bunch of squares (maybe like 2-4 inches per side of a square) to remove some of the deadening, while still keeping the structural integrity of that part with the carpet and sound deadening, while letting some sound through. I wouldn't dare do that to the stock part, I would buy an extra one and give it a try. I didn't get an exact quote, but he thought they were around $400-500.
I had a theory that if you increased the volume of the exhaust, that would help reduce the notion of the muffling of the sound with top down and both windows up. It turns out that was correct! With the new mod of the Soul Resonated OAPs and the BMC Air Filters, the exhaust is noticeably louder now - and the result is that while the tone gets a LITTLE bit muffled with both windows up (relative to the Spyder, which does not at all exhibit that) it is significantly less now and no longer troublesome or annoying. So problem sort of solved.
I may at some point down the road still try this if I am ever bothered by it in the future, but I am doubtful. Many have you have noted that I seem to buy and sell new versions of my beloved 718 4.0's each year, so at this point I may slow down on too many further mods on this one.
Maybe the net of all of this is indeed "if you want a Spyder, buy a Spyder". Duh!
I actually was going through that process in my head (re Boxster GTS versus Sypder) with my multiple test drives before and after the latest Exhaust Mod. I commented on the exhaust thread that with the increase in power, while driving very aggressively I felt like I was overwhelming the Chassis. One more reason to get the Spyder over the GTS. I was thinking that, but then a hit a patch of rough pavement, and my GTS with SPASM and the DSC floated right over it like a magic carpet ride. And after that as the sun was beating down I felt hot, and then I turned the Ventilated Seats on and was instantly comfortable. Then I concluded "nope, Boxster GTS all the way!"
So there really is no right answer. Just pros and cons. If I won the lottery, I would probably own a Boxster GTS 4.0 Manual, a Spyder Manual and a GT4 RS. At least! Maybe a couple more, I love these darn things!
Since then, I did some research on the parts. See below diagram:
I am trying to order part number 4 there, which supposedly fits all Boxsters. I ordered it in Red of course, to match my Full Bordeaux interior. Supposedly it has the Sound Deadening built into it, and I could try cutting some of that out. I would only try that with an EXTRA part, not the part on my car now.
That said, the status of this part is questionable, it is by custom order only and 16-18 weeks lead time for Germany, IF they accept the order.
An experiment for over the winter into the spring, if I still have my Boxster 25 by then, LOL!
Here was my post about what my Service Advisor said:
Since then, I did some research on the parts. See below diagram:
I am trying to order part number 4 there, which supposedly fits all Boxsters. I ordered it in Red of course, to match my Full Bordeaux interior. Supposedly it has the Sound Deadening built into it, and I could try cutting some of that out. I would only try that with an EXTRA part, not the part on my car now.
That said, the status of this part is questionable, it is by custom order only and 16-18 weeks lead time for Germany, IF they accept the order.
An experiment for over the winter into the spring, if I still have my Boxster 25 by then, LOL!
Ahh! Thanks for all that info. Makes sense that the sound deadening is built into the materials in the cabin and that they differ from GT4/Spyder and the GTS models. Honestly I'd trade the best sounding exhaust in a GTS for the rawness you get from the GT4/Spyder in the cabin any day which you get stock with one of those cars. I've always been a cabin engine/intake sound > exhaust sound guy.
Of course as you have said, the GTS has other advantages which is why I went with it over a GT4. For my next one in the future I hope Porsche puts out another car that an even better combination of the GTS and GT4. If they made a GT4 touring that would be the one. Cayman GTS 4.0 is the closest thing to that at the moment.
Hopefully the BMC filters + Kline OAPs and rear that I'll be installing will help with some of this.
Last edited by BrianShaw23; 07-13-2022 at 05:32 PM.
07-10-2022 | 12:39 AM
and driving it like it should be driven. I don't think I did a lot of spirited drives in the stock GTS before changing out the exhaust. My current setup is pretty darn loud and raw throughout all rev ranges. I'm not eager to remove any sound deadening in order to increase the volume, but you have me thinking that strategically removing some of the sound deadening could improve the tone of the sound that gets through the cabin. I may look into that a bit more. The way it is now, I get a lot of good induction sound, a lot of good exhaust sound, a completely different exhaust sound with the windows down, and not a lot of unwanted sounds from outside or NVH. I don't really want to mess with that combination too much more and definitely don't want to try out a new system. My car sounds way different than the GT4 especially in the low and mid RPM ranges. Up top they are both loud and pleasant but down low since my valves are open I hear a lot more of the exhaust.
