Lotus Emira vs Porsche Cayman GTS 4.0 Reviews
06-08-2022, 02:48 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
I just put Ohlins on my GTS and it drives so much better. Car is lower but still doesn't scrape and handles bumps without the jarring effect despite much stiffer springs. It is actually more comfortable than stock at certain settings probably all due to the difference in damping. Handles much closer to how I wanted as well - more planted, stiffer, sharper, and feels more agile. Don't miss PASM at all.
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Tigers10 (06-08-2022)
06-08-2022, 04:00 PM
#33
I just put Ohlins on my GTS and it drives so much better. Car is lower but still doesn't scrape and handles bumps without the jarring effect despite much stiffer springs. It is actually more comfortable than stock at certain settings probably all due to the difference in damping. Handles much closer to how I wanted as well - more planted, stiffer, sharper, and feels more agile. Don't miss PASM at all.
THIS!!
While I went with MCS 2-way remote dampers, not Ohlins, the car is 100% better. It is way more planted, the front-end and rear-end act as one, and there is none of that stock "pogo stick effect" .
My problem is that I came from a MRC equipped car and THAT is hard to beat from any passive damper, even a motorsport derived one.
Having said that, I have been playing with compression, rebound, sway bar settings, and tire pressure for a few mths now, and I finally am VERY close to having it optimized for street use.
06-08-2022, 04:13 PM
#34
06-08-2022, 06:17 PM
#35
Also, Komo-tec should be able to get these to 500hp as well. They already have the equipment/tuning from the Evora segment.
06-08-2022, 08:27 PM
#36
Does anyone have Ohlins in their GT4 today? Was it worth the coin?
06-08-2022, 09:42 PM
#37
This has been my previous experience with aftermarket suspensions. Even with firmer spring rates, they are much better damped and able to rebound a lot quicker. I wouldn't mind at all giving up pasm to have something like Bilstein or Ohlin's. When you add in the DSC to help bring the pasm setup into the newer generation, you're still losing some qualities you might want with a full coilover suspension. The Ohlin's are on my short list for next year.
Suspension modified cars often feel more planted at road speeds but fall apart at track speeds unless thought and experience has been brought to bear. With track set-ups you are literally buying the race engineers knowledge being applied to a set of adjustable dampers (and other components and performance drivers such as brake bias). It doesn't matter whether you buy Bilstein, KW, Ohlins, tractive etc - that is just myth.
Suspension design is focussed on controlling three vectors - pitch, roll and yaw under braking, acceleration and cornering - its a balancing act and unless you are measuring outcomes through time, yaw rates, lateral g, long g etc or designing outcomes on a shock dyno you are largely guessing. In my experience, most amateurs think they know what a good set up feels like but usually data disproves them.
It should be noted that most suppliers of aftermarket gear have rarely put the time into more high end cars - where as the designers and manufacturers put a huge amount of effort and collect endless amounts of data in order to get this right for a range of use scenarios. The reason Porsche GT cars in unmodified form are so quick round tracks is because of this data driven design effort.
Last edited by groundhog; 06-08-2022 at 09:56 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by groundhog:
manifold danger (06-12-2022),
Montaver (06-09-2022)
06-09-2022, 12:12 AM
#38
THE BIG SPORTSCAR TEST: LOTUS EMIRA VS PORSCHE CAYMAN VS ALPINE A110
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/big...vs-alpine-a110
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jorijori (06-12-2023)
06-09-2022, 08:07 AM
#39
Racer
Gorgeous looking car.
06-09-2022, 10:08 AM
#40
Some great photos in there.... its crazy how the Cayman GTS looks down right pedestrian next to the Emira. Interior of the GTS looks its age as well. I'm assuming the Porsche's drivetrain will end up being superior in most ways, but this is a category where emotion sells cars and that lotus stirs some serious emotion
Mutton dressed as lamb.
Last edited by groundhog; 06-09-2022 at 10:09 AM.
06-09-2022, 02:04 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Is this the cliff notes to your post in #25? I get it. You don't like the Lotus.
06-09-2022, 03:59 PM
#42
Porsche use Bilstein generally..........................the brand doesn't matter - the valving, spring rates, presence or absence of helper, size of cylinder, oil type and amount, mono or dual, inverted, non-inverted - this is what matters and Porsche are expert at it and the have it fully balanced in terms of body torsional rigidity, wheel rate and ARB spring rate. Most after-market kits do very little and are largely illusory unless they are designed for a specific car with the understanding of the car as a whole and the primary use. Then the car has to be correctly corner weighted and height and rake adjusted.
Suspension modified cars often feel more planted at road speeds but fall apart at track speeds unless thought and experience has been brought to bear. With track set-ups you are literally buying the race engineers knowledge being applied to a set of adjustable dampers (and other components and performance drivers such as brake bias). It doesn't matter whether you buy Bilstein, KW, Ohlins, tractive etc - that is just myth.
Suspension design is focussed on controlling three vectors - pitch, roll and yaw under braking, acceleration and cornering - its a balancing act and unless you are measuring outcomes through time, yaw rates, lateral g, long g etc or designing outcomes on a shock dyno you are largely guessing. In my experience, most amateurs think they know what a good set up feels like but usually data disproves them.
It should be noted that most suppliers of aftermarket gear have rarely put the time into more high end cars - where as the designers and manufacturers put a huge amount of effort and collect endless amounts of data in order to get this right for a range of use scenarios. The reason Porsche GT cars in unmodified form are so quick round tracks is because of this data driven design effort.
Suspension modified cars often feel more planted at road speeds but fall apart at track speeds unless thought and experience has been brought to bear. With track set-ups you are literally buying the race engineers knowledge being applied to a set of adjustable dampers (and other components and performance drivers such as brake bias). It doesn't matter whether you buy Bilstein, KW, Ohlins, tractive etc - that is just myth.
Suspension design is focussed on controlling three vectors - pitch, roll and yaw under braking, acceleration and cornering - its a balancing act and unless you are measuring outcomes through time, yaw rates, lateral g, long g etc or designing outcomes on a shock dyno you are largely guessing. In my experience, most amateurs think they know what a good set up feels like but usually data disproves them.
It should be noted that most suppliers of aftermarket gear have rarely put the time into more high end cars - where as the designers and manufacturers put a huge amount of effort and collect endless amounts of data in order to get this right for a range of use scenarios. The reason Porsche GT cars in unmodified form are so quick round tracks is because of this data driven design effort.
Sounds good in theory or if you are an engineer geeky type, however real world this is absolutely not true.
My stock GT4 is a good 20 MPH SLOWER on fast sweepers that have undulations and dips/bumps in them than my current MCS 2-way remote dampers are. And by high speed sweepers, I mean 100+. The car in stock form gets so unsettled.
In stock form, the front end and rear end do not talk well together and there is not enough rebound control. A large bump at speed on stock PASM has the rear-end extending all the way to the end of its travel and upsetting the car. With MCS, it is a quick one and done and very controlled rebound movement with not nearly the extension.
That is just one example, I drive my car hard and fast and on real world roads, not track roads that cater to high speed driving. The stock PASM is ONLY good when the roads are smooth and the suspension doesn't have to work very hard.
06-09-2022, 04:42 PM
#43
Sounds good in theory or if you are an engineer geeky type, however real world this is absolutely not true.
My stock GT4 is a good 20 MPH SLOWER on fast sweepers that have undulations and dips/bumps in them than my current MCS 2-way remote dampers are. And by high speed sweepers, I mean 100+. The car in stock form gets so unsettled.
In stock form, the front end and rear end do not talk well together and there is not enough rebound control. A large bump at speed on stock PASM has the rear-end extending all the way to the end of its travel and upsetting the car. With MCS, it is a quick one and done and very controlled rebound movement with not nearly the extension.
That is just one example, I drive my car hard and fast and on real world roads, not track roads that cater to high speed driving. The stock PASM is ONLY good when the roads are smooth and the suspension doesn't have to work very hard.
My stock GT4 is a good 20 MPH SLOWER on fast sweepers that have undulations and dips/bumps in them than my current MCS 2-way remote dampers are. And by high speed sweepers, I mean 100+. The car in stock form gets so unsettled.
In stock form, the front end and rear end do not talk well together and there is not enough rebound control. A large bump at speed on stock PASM has the rear-end extending all the way to the end of its travel and upsetting the car. With MCS, it is a quick one and done and very controlled rebound movement with not nearly the extension.
That is just one example, I drive my car hard and fast and on real world roads, not track roads that cater to high speed driving. The stock PASM is ONLY good when the roads are smooth and the suspension doesn't have to work very hard.
And I’d argue that the issue with the GT4 rear suspension isn’t a rebound issue, it’s a lack of high speed compression damping that causes the car to break loose momentarily in moderate speed driving.
Last edited by Archimedes; 06-09-2022 at 04:47 PM.
06-09-2022, 04:43 PM
#44
Instructor
We can watch reviews all we want, but in reality, driving is so subjective. There is only one way to figure it out, drive it back to back yourself. I did the comparison between 991.2 GT3/RS and 992 GT3, it was a day and night difference and you notice it right away. Many people on this forum say you cannot feel it because xxx review and yyy theory. For those folks, talk all you want because it is your right, but I am getting first-hand experience and unless you drove them all, I have more credibility than you on the driving feedback of those cars.
On this note, I am buying an emira and I will do the comparison with a 718 GT4, or spyder, or a GTS when I drive them back to back. I will share my driving impressions but note, it is going to be subjective.
On this note, I am buying an emira and I will do the comparison with a 718 GT4, or spyder, or a GTS when I drive them back to back. I will share my driving impressions but note, it is going to be subjective.
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jorijori (06-12-2023)
06-09-2022, 04:59 PM
#45
Yeah, I have no problem taking sweepers at 100-120 without my car getting unsettled by bumps or undulations, so not sure what was wrong with your car when stock. I’ve been shocked by how planted my car is at these speeds. There’s so much downforce at those speeds that the car seems to feel more planted the faster I go, rather than less.
And I’d argue that the issue with the GT4 rear suspension isn’t a rebound issue, it’s a lack of high speed compression damping that causes the car to break loose momentarily in moderate speed driving.
And I’d argue that the issue with the GT4 rear suspension isn’t a rebound issue, it’s a lack of high speed compression damping that causes the car to break loose momentarily in moderate speed driving.
I can show you a couple of places where you can feel this in the South Bay. One is low speed 60MPH and under, the other is 100+. If you even want to meet up we can take the some corners , once in your car, once in mine.
I think it is both, compression too high and rebound too low. The too high of compression causes the skipping because it takes a lot of force to compress the shocks (which means too much compression damping force) and that also causes the pogo effect, then the rebound is too low because the rear extends too fast off the spring (again adding rebound will add more damping and slow the upward force)
Compression only affects the unsprung mass, rebound affects the weight of the car. I have learned A LOT about compression and rebound these last few months.