Is the GT4 RS REALLY 23.6 seconds faster than GT4??
03-25-2022, 07:50 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Is the GT4 RS REALLY 23.6 seconds faster than GT4??
Porsche and the media keep harping on the fact that the RS was 23 seconds faster than the GT4. Of course it is faster, but the delta isn't really that much I suspect when comparing apples to apples.
How much time do the stickier Cup 2 R compound tires account for?
A PDK in the RS vs the manual on the time for the vanilla GT4? What if this was a PDK GT4?
Just curious what people think and would estimate. This article on Excellence is one of the few I see which compares a manual vs PDK GT4 on the Sachsenring. It was 1.2s quicker on this 2.28 mile track. I know this is highly hypothetical and speculative, but if we extrapolate this to the 11.9 mile Bridge to gantry on Nurburbring it would come out to a 6.2s advantage.
Some say the Cup 2 R tires are worth another 4-5 seconds?
Just wondering what your opinions are..
Article referenced above:
https://www.excellence-mag.com/issue...tically-better
How much time do the stickier Cup 2 R compound tires account for?
A PDK in the RS vs the manual on the time for the vanilla GT4? What if this was a PDK GT4?
Just curious what people think and would estimate. This article on Excellence is one of the few I see which compares a manual vs PDK GT4 on the Sachsenring. It was 1.2s quicker on this 2.28 mile track. I know this is highly hypothetical and speculative, but if we extrapolate this to the 11.9 mile Bridge to gantry on Nurburbring it would come out to a 6.2s advantage.
Some say the Cup 2 R tires are worth another 4-5 seconds?
Just wondering what your opinions are..
Article referenced above:
https://www.excellence-mag.com/issue...tically-better
Last edited by Sharm; 03-25-2022 at 07:52 PM.
03-25-2022, 07:52 PM
#2
I bet the R tires are worth more than that.
03-25-2022, 08:00 PM
#3
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Rennlist Member
I’d say the R tires are probably worth twice that.
As for the PDK issue on the Non-RS GT4, I think any advantage of the faster shifting and slightly lower ratios of the PDK is largely offset by the 67 pound weight penalty.
The PDK in the RS has far better gearing.
GT4 PDK vs 4RS on same tires is probably 10-16 seconds delta. Also, the RS lap was made with lightest spec (including PCCB and Mag wheels). Not sure if you can even buy 5-lug mags for GT4 in aftermarket.
As for the PDK issue on the Non-RS GT4, I think any advantage of the faster shifting and slightly lower ratios of the PDK is largely offset by the 67 pound weight penalty.
The PDK in the RS has far better gearing.
GT4 PDK vs 4RS on same tires is probably 10-16 seconds delta. Also, the RS lap was made with lightest spec (including PCCB and Mag wheels). Not sure if you can even buy 5-lug mags for GT4 in aftermarket.
Last edited by GrantG; 03-25-2022 at 08:01 PM.
03-25-2022, 08:07 PM
#4
I’d say the R tires are probably worth twice that.
As for the PDK issue on the Non-RS GT4, I think any advantage of the faster shifting and slightly lower ratios of the PDK is largely offset by the 67 pound weight penalty.
The PDK in the RS has far better gearing.
GT4 PDK vs 4RS on same tires is probably 10-16 seconds delta. Also, the RS lap was made with lightest spec (including PCCB and Mag wheels). Not sure if you can even buy 5-lug mags for GT4 in aftermarket.
As for the PDK issue on the Non-RS GT4, I think any advantage of the faster shifting and slightly lower ratios of the PDK is largely offset by the 67 pound weight penalty.
The PDK in the RS has far better gearing.
GT4 PDK vs 4RS on same tires is probably 10-16 seconds delta. Also, the RS lap was made with lightest spec (including PCCB and Mag wheels). Not sure if you can even buy 5-lug mags for GT4 in aftermarket.
Right now you can’t get PCCBs. So, with steels, none mag, on regular cup 2s, and improved PDK, maybe 10-12 seconds faster?
03-25-2022, 08:24 PM
#5
I’d say the R tires are probably worth twice that.
As for the PDK issue on the Non-RS GT4, I think any advantage of the faster shifting and slightly lower ratios of the PDK is largely offset by the 67 pound weight penalty.
The PDK in the RS has far better gearing.
GT4 PDK vs 4RS on same tires is probably 10-16 seconds delta. Also, the RS lap was made with lightest spec (including PCCB and Mag wheels). Not sure if you can even buy 5-lug mags for GT4 in aftermarket.
As for the PDK issue on the Non-RS GT4, I think any advantage of the faster shifting and slightly lower ratios of the PDK is largely offset by the 67 pound weight penalty.
The PDK in the RS has far better gearing.
GT4 PDK vs 4RS on same tires is probably 10-16 seconds delta. Also, the RS lap was made with lightest spec (including PCCB and Mag wheels). Not sure if you can even buy 5-lug mags for GT4 in aftermarket.
That sounds about right.
You always have to look past the marketing BS and compare like for like.
The star of the GT4 RS is the motor, other than that, it is not much different than the GT4. Those who are willing to part with at least an extra $50K (probably closer to $100K) just for a motor indeed have deep pockets.
You can add the Cup 2 R's to a vanilla GT4, so no selling point there. The other changes in spring rates, bushings, 25% more downforce etc. probably account for the least of the additional time.
Last edited by TRZ06; 03-25-2022 at 08:25 PM.
03-25-2022, 08:28 PM
#6
That sounds about right.
You always have to look past the marketing BS and compare like for like.
The star of the GT4 RS is the motor, other than that, it is not much different than the GT4. Those who are willing to part with at least an extra $50K (probably closer to $100K) just for a motor indeed have deep pockets.
You can add the Cup 2 R's to a vanilla GT4, so no selling point there. The other changes in spring rates, bushings, 25% more downforce etc. probably account for the least of the additional time.
You always have to look past the marketing BS and compare like for like.
The star of the GT4 RS is the motor, other than that, it is not much different than the GT4. Those who are willing to part with at least an extra $50K (probably closer to $100K) just for a motor indeed have deep pockets.
You can add the Cup 2 R's to a vanilla GT4, so no selling point there. The other changes in spring rates, bushings, 25% more downforce etc. probably account for the least of the additional time.
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catdog2 (03-26-2022)
03-25-2022, 08:41 PM
#7
For sure. There is a point where it is too much and 100db for any length of time is too much for most. The GT4 RS to me gives the vibe of like a 30 min thrashing drive, then put away until next week, unless you want to wear ear plugs all the time.
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03-25-2022, 09:31 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
I'm going to drive a 4RS at the Ring at the end of April, and a 992 GT3 in August, since my PB BtoG is 7:35 in my 991.2 GT3 (6MT) it will be interesting too see how these two perform...
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03-25-2022, 09:41 PM
#9
No perfect science on this but based on other cars in the past having this same debate it seems like the tires could be good for 6-8 seconds. Being generous call it 10 seconds. Its not like the regular Gt4 is on terrible rubber to start. Still a decent improvement even going beyond tires. Like allways will that difference make a lick of difference for 99% of the people who buy this vs if they would have purchased a regular GT4? NOPE. In fact like I feel with most people I know who have bought Gt3Rs cars they would be better served in their uses with a base 911. But numbers sell cars. And many many people (throwing myself in the pool here) like to have the most capable version of a car.
03-25-2022, 09:47 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
Porsche and the media keep harping on the fact that the RS was 23 seconds faster than the GT4. Of course it is faster, but the delta isn't really that much I suspect when comparing apples to apples.
How much time do the stickier Cup 2 R compound tires account for?
A PDK in the RS vs the manual on the time for the vanilla GT4? What if this was a PDK GT4?
Just curious what people think and would estimate. This article on Excellence is one of the few I see which compares a manual vs PDK GT4 on the Sachsenring. It was 1.2s quicker on this 2.28 mile track. I know this is highly hypothetical and speculative, but if we extrapolate this to the 11.9 mile Bridge to gantry on Nurburbring it would come out to a 6.2s advantage.
Some say the Cup 2 R tires are worth another 4-5 seconds?
Just wondering what your opinions are..
Article referenced above:
https://www.excellence-mag.com/issue...tically-better
How much time do the stickier Cup 2 R compound tires account for?
A PDK in the RS vs the manual on the time for the vanilla GT4? What if this was a PDK GT4?
Just curious what people think and would estimate. This article on Excellence is one of the few I see which compares a manual vs PDK GT4 on the Sachsenring. It was 1.2s quicker on this 2.28 mile track. I know this is highly hypothetical and speculative, but if we extrapolate this to the 11.9 mile Bridge to gantry on Nurburbring it would come out to a 6.2s advantage.
Some say the Cup 2 R tires are worth another 4-5 seconds?
Just wondering what your opinions are..
Article referenced above:
https://www.excellence-mag.com/issue...tically-better
03-25-2022, 10:19 PM
#11
I think that delta is very real.
Suspension is MUCH stiffer.
The Cup 2 R tyres were designed for EXACTLY this.
Track has been revised.
Car is lighter.
PDK has been given a much better set of ratios.
80 hp difference.
More downforce.
Those cars are two completely different animals.
Suspension is MUCH stiffer.
The Cup 2 R tyres were designed for EXACTLY this.
Track has been revised.
Car is lighter.
PDK has been given a much better set of ratios.
80 hp difference.
More downforce.
Those cars are two completely different animals.
The following 2 users liked this post by Il CP:
catdog2 (03-26-2022),
Frank Torres (03-29-2022)
03-25-2022, 10:50 PM
#12
It would be ridiculous to think there isn’t a substantive delta. All the suspension and aero changes alone would account for an improvement, Not to mention the additional hp and torque.
But in equally light specs, with equal tires? No, it’s not that large of a delta.
But it doesn’t even matter. The RS is epic, and the GT4 is still a great car, just not as sharp nor as lively. Price reflects value. ADM will reflect demand.
But in equally light specs, with equal tires? No, it’s not that large of a delta.
But it doesn’t even matter. The RS is epic, and the GT4 is still a great car, just not as sharp nor as lively. Price reflects value. ADM will reflect demand.
03-25-2022, 10:56 PM
#13
How does every thread converge to ADM?
OP simply asked if the delta was real or manufactured.
OP simply asked if the delta was real or manufactured.
03-26-2022, 12:24 AM
#14
But it’s true, ADM is top of mind because I’m a bit depressed that I can’t get one at MSRP, or even with a small, but reasonable ADM. I’m sad and salty that the car seems to be everything I want (owned every generation of Cayman—just love the platform), even down to PDK, but is not in the cards for me. Just expressing some sadness. It’s exacerbated by the brilliant reviews, which isn’t even a surprise.
I’ll go hide (and enjoy my GT4).
Last edited by KelvinC; 03-26-2022 at 03:52 AM.
03-26-2022, 12:24 AM
#15
The fact that the front wheel well louvres on the RS were covered over shouldn't be overlooked as costing some time.
I don't know how much time, but Porsche didn't cover them for fun.
I don't know how much time, but Porsche didn't cover them for fun.