How much longer will Porsche make any 718 models?
10-10-2021, 04:50 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
EVs are crazy good at being a DD. Unless you have range / charging issues, an ICE can’t compete.
Sports cars are another story; thus my spyder, due in a mere 43 more months. :-|
Sports cars are another story; thus my spyder, due in a mere 43 more months. :-|
10-10-2021, 06:26 PM
#17
EV is not a car. It is a public conveyance. Do not try to justify the existence of EVs because they are somehow more "convenient". You want convenience? Take an Uber.
If people would really care about convenience and environment, they should start building public transportation and build cities focused around it. Instead they force EVs down everyone's throats, because you can't virtue signal from a bus, but you can certainly virtue signal from a Tesla (or a Taycan).
10-10-2021, 07:12 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Someone's triggered. 
Prager U talking points to the forefront! No sign of the word "agenda" yet, but you can feel it lurking. Along with the 'L' bomb.
If you're so sure about motives...go hang out at your local Porsche dealer and accuse the next taycan buyer of being a disingenuous poseur. Let me know how that works out for you.
Prager U talking points to the forefront! No sign of the word "agenda" yet, but you can feel it lurking. Along with the 'L' bomb.If you're so sure about motives...go hang out at your local Porsche dealer and accuse the next taycan buyer of being a disingenuous poseur. Let me know how that works out for you.
Last edited by Adrift; 10-10-2021 at 07:14 PM.
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10-10-2021, 09:10 PM
#20
EV sports car is an oxymoron. Will never buy one. I own an electric car, a BMW i3, and it is a great commuter car for a city. It's kinda fun to drive in a city because it's springy and agile. Convenient due to its size and super short overhangs. But the moment you leave city it becomes obvious it is an appliance and boring in the end. Instant torque kind of gets old and can make passenger sick if you overdo it.
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10-11-2021, 12:23 AM
#21
Drifting
10-11-2021, 12:41 AM
#22
Drifting
EVs are "good" at being a Daily Driver if you dont care about driving. You know what makes an even better Daily Driver? A bus.
EV is not a car. It is a public conveyance. Do not try to justify the existence of EVs because they are somehow more "convenient". You want convenience? Take an Uber.
If people would really care about convenience and environment, they should start building public transportation and build cities focused around it. Instead they force EVs down everyone's throats, because you can't virtue signal from a bus, but you can certainly virtue signal from a Tesla (or a Taycan).
EV is not a car. It is a public conveyance. Do not try to justify the existence of EVs because they are somehow more "convenient". You want convenience? Take an Uber.
If people would really care about convenience and environment, they should start building public transportation and build cities focused around it. Instead they force EVs down everyone's throats, because you can't virtue signal from a bus, but you can certainly virtue signal from a Tesla (or a Taycan).
If you actually truly care about the environment transportation is a very poor choice to go after, but you are right, it is popular to hate on.
10-11-2021, 01:46 AM
#23
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EV sports car is an oxymoron. Will never buy one. I own an electric car, a BMW i3, and it is a great commuter car for a city. It's kinda fun to drive in a city because it's springy and agile. Convenient due to its size and super short overhangs. But the moment you leave city it becomes obvious it is an appliance and boring in the end. Instant torque kind of gets old and can make passenger sick if you overdo it.
I rented a Taycan 4S for a day, and to be honest I enjoyed it more than my 718 Spyder. The low centre of gravity (and width) allowed it to have superb body control despite a very soft suspension. It had amazing grip (would probably beat my Spyder on equivalent tires), didn’t get unsettled by mid-corner cracks/bumps/potholes (unlike my Spyder), could power out of corners way better than my Spyder, was always in the right gear and in the power band, and I could fool around without making a bunch of noise and drawing attention to myself. A better sports car than my Spyder in many aspects, while also being a four door luxury sedan that could ride smoother and quieter than an S class.
Of course there’s room for improvement in EV weight, range, and charging speeds, and a noisy imperfect ICE powertrain can be fun sometimes. However, I’m really excited at the prospect of a car that gives the ride, handling, and powertrain response of the Taycan in a smaller and lighter package. Range may be an issue for repeated lapping on track, but otherwise an EV sports car would be awesome, at least for me.
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10-11-2021, 02:02 AM
#24
This is like saying all ICE cars are boring appliances because you have a Nissan Versa Note and its a decent commuter car but nothing more.
I rented a Taycan 4S for a day, and to be honest I enjoyed it more than my 718 Spyder. The low centre of gravity (and width) allowed it to have superb body control despite a very soft suspension. It had amazing grip (would probably beat my Spyder on equivalent tires), didn’t get unsettled by mid-corner cracks/bumps/potholes (unlike my Spyder), could power out of corners way better than my Spyder, was always in the right gear and in the power band, and I could fool around without making a bunch of noise and drawing attention to myself. A better sports car than my Spyder in many aspects, while also being a four door luxury sedan that could ride smoother and quieter than an S class.
Of course there’s room for improvement in EV weight, range, and charging speeds, and a noisy imperfect ICE powertrain can be fun sometimes. However, I’m really excited at the prospect of a car that gives the ride, handling, and powertrain response of the Taycan in a smaller and lighter package. Range may be an issue for repeated lapping on track, but otherwise an EV sports car would be awesome, at least for me.
I rented a Taycan 4S for a day, and to be honest I enjoyed it more than my 718 Spyder. The low centre of gravity (and width) allowed it to have superb body control despite a very soft suspension. It had amazing grip (would probably beat my Spyder on equivalent tires), didn’t get unsettled by mid-corner cracks/bumps/potholes (unlike my Spyder), could power out of corners way better than my Spyder, was always in the right gear and in the power band, and I could fool around without making a bunch of noise and drawing attention to myself. A better sports car than my Spyder in many aspects, while also being a four door luxury sedan that could ride smoother and quieter than an S class.
Of course there’s room for improvement in EV weight, range, and charging speeds, and a noisy imperfect ICE powertrain can be fun sometimes. However, I’m really excited at the prospect of a car that gives the ride, handling, and powertrain response of the Taycan in a smaller and lighter package. Range may be an issue for repeated lapping on track, but otherwise an EV sports car would be awesome, at least for me.
Of course this is extrapolation. And of course there is more to sport car than ICE's noises and power band, but's really important I dare to say most enthusiasts. I suppose EV can handle great (i3 actually handles very well - it's under 3000 lbs and RWD - though can get squirrelly due to the narrow rubber) - but the weight will always be a problem (or the range will render them borderline useless). The sterile experience and the instant torque will be just meh.
As to Taycan vs Spyder. Seems like you discovered advantages of double wishbone/multilink setup over ancient struts all around. Not to mention Spyder is pretty stiff, so not really well suited for potholed roads.
Last edited by unclemat; 10-11-2021 at 02:04 AM.
10-11-2021, 02:17 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
This is like saying all ICE cars are boring appliances because you have a Nissan Versa Note and its a decent commuter car but nothing more.
I rented a Taycan 4S for a day, and to be honest I enjoyed it more than my 718 Spyder. The low centre of gravity (and width) allowed it to have superb body control despite a very soft suspension. It had amazing grip (would probably beat my Spyder on equivalent tires), didn’t get unsettled by mid-corner cracks/bumps/potholes (unlike my Spyder), could power out of corners way better than my Spyder, was always in the right gear and in the power band, and I could fool around without making a bunch of noise and drawing attention to myself. A better sports car than my Spyder in many aspects, while also being a four door luxury sedan that could ride smoother and quieter than an S class.
Of course there’s room for improvement in EV weight, range, and charging speeds, and a noisy imperfect ICE powertrain can be fun sometimes. However, I’m really excited at the prospect of a car that gives the ride, handling, and powertrain response of the Taycan in a smaller and lighter package. Range may be an issue for repeated lapping on track, but otherwise an EV sports car would be awesome, at least for me.
I rented a Taycan 4S for a day, and to be honest I enjoyed it more than my 718 Spyder. The low centre of gravity (and width) allowed it to have superb body control despite a very soft suspension. It had amazing grip (would probably beat my Spyder on equivalent tires), didn’t get unsettled by mid-corner cracks/bumps/potholes (unlike my Spyder), could power out of corners way better than my Spyder, was always in the right gear and in the power band, and I could fool around without making a bunch of noise and drawing attention to myself. A better sports car than my Spyder in many aspects, while also being a four door luxury sedan that could ride smoother and quieter than an S class.
Of course there’s room for improvement in EV weight, range, and charging speeds, and a noisy imperfect ICE powertrain can be fun sometimes. However, I’m really excited at the prospect of a car that gives the ride, handling, and powertrain response of the Taycan in a smaller and lighter package. Range may be an issue for repeated lapping on track, but otherwise an EV sports car would be awesome, at least for me.
10-11-2021, 10:19 AM
#26
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I won’t go that far. I love the size, steering feel, braking abilities, seating position, simple interior, agility, and styling of the Spyder. The suspension also strikes a fairly good balance of compliance and composure compared to other ICE sports cars I’ve owned; my confidence in it was reduced a bit by some rear end instability in heavy braking I experienced on track, but TPC toe links should be able to solve that. Rowing the gears and making noises is fun too in the right environment. I’ll probably keep the Spyder a long time, since it’s unique in my fleet, I bought it new, and you could call it one of the last analog sports cars.
I would have to admit I’m perhaps not as smitten as I was when I first got the car, and miss my AMG GT S a bit, but on the right twisting road or on track, I still love the Spyder, and don’t miss anything.
Driving the Taycan was a bit of a revelation for me. I knew to expect the silent acceleration and always being in the power band, but really enjoyed being able to accelerate without drawing attention to myself (can’t do that in the 718), and always being in the power band in situations where the 718 would be in between gears (eg. accelerating between 45-70 km/h in second gear, or 110-135 km/h in third gear). However, the bigger surprise for me when driving the Taycan was how a battery-in-the-bottom electric platform with a really low centre of gravity (coupled with the width and wheelbase of the Taycan) allows making a car that simultaneously has the body control of an ICE sports car, and the ride of an ICE luxury car. Furthermore, in softer modes, it rode considerably smoother over awful roads than my ABC-equipped Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, while still matching the body control of the ABC-equipped CL, all without needing active anti-roll bars (not optioned on the car I drove) or a CL-style fully active suspension.
It was the Taycan’s surreal combination of luxury car ride and silence coupled with sports car body control and grip that made all my ICE cars feel obsolete. The ability of the suspension to brush off and ignore mid corner bumps was an added bonus. I still enjoy my (currently owned ICE) cars, and appreciate their different characters and experiences, but I no longer feel impressed by the capabilities of their powertrains or suspensions after experiencing the Taycan.
I haven’t yet bought a Taycan because I can’t afford to buy one in addition to my Spyder (especially with the depreciation I expect in the future as battery technology improves), and I’m sure I would miss the Spyder if I sold it. However, after experiencing what the Taycan can do, I’m definitely going to buy an EV in the near future, and maybe a Taycan when they depreciate a bit, or an updated model comes out and I’ve saved up some more.
As for areas the Taycan could do better, I’d prefer a bit more range with a bit less weight, but it’s not that far off the Panamera, and another decade of battery improvements should get us there. I’d also want more steering feel and feedback, as the Taycan steering, while good by luxury car standards, felt numb compared to my Spyder.
I would have to admit I’m perhaps not as smitten as I was when I first got the car, and miss my AMG GT S a bit, but on the right twisting road or on track, I still love the Spyder, and don’t miss anything.
Driving the Taycan was a bit of a revelation for me. I knew to expect the silent acceleration and always being in the power band, but really enjoyed being able to accelerate without drawing attention to myself (can’t do that in the 718), and always being in the power band in situations where the 718 would be in between gears (eg. accelerating between 45-70 km/h in second gear, or 110-135 km/h in third gear). However, the bigger surprise for me when driving the Taycan was how a battery-in-the-bottom electric platform with a really low centre of gravity (coupled with the width and wheelbase of the Taycan) allows making a car that simultaneously has the body control of an ICE sports car, and the ride of an ICE luxury car. Furthermore, in softer modes, it rode considerably smoother over awful roads than my ABC-equipped Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, while still matching the body control of the ABC-equipped CL, all without needing active anti-roll bars (not optioned on the car I drove) or a CL-style fully active suspension.
It was the Taycan’s surreal combination of luxury car ride and silence coupled with sports car body control and grip that made all my ICE cars feel obsolete. The ability of the suspension to brush off and ignore mid corner bumps was an added bonus. I still enjoy my (currently owned ICE) cars, and appreciate their different characters and experiences, but I no longer feel impressed by the capabilities of their powertrains or suspensions after experiencing the Taycan.
I haven’t yet bought a Taycan because I can’t afford to buy one in addition to my Spyder (especially with the depreciation I expect in the future as battery technology improves), and I’m sure I would miss the Spyder if I sold it. However, after experiencing what the Taycan can do, I’m definitely going to buy an EV in the near future, and maybe a Taycan when they depreciate a bit, or an updated model comes out and I’ve saved up some more.
As for areas the Taycan could do better, I’d prefer a bit more range with a bit less weight, but it’s not that far off the Panamera, and another decade of battery improvements should get us there. I’d also want more steering feel and feedback, as the Taycan steering, while good by luxury car standards, felt numb compared to my Spyder.
Last edited by wizee; 10-11-2021 at 10:42 AM.
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The Pinkoboe (10-12-2021)
10-12-2021, 11:24 AM
#27
Rennlist Member
If done right.. I might want an EV Cayman! 0 to 60 2.5 sec (for the base model)... Nurburgring in well under 7 min... weight in at 3650... Tech, suspension and styling upgrades.. check, check, check... could be very enticing... I would have to order the burmeister sound system as I would need to play the sound track from my GT4 with kline exhaust to be truly happy tho... People are getting very happy modding their teslas - I got wiped out the other night by what I can only imagine was a tesla plaid... OMG it was unholy fast!
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10-12-2021, 12:52 PM
#28
RL Community Team
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I purchased a Tesla Model 3 performance edition and I honestly have to say it’s the best car I have ever owned. Having 470 torque available at any speed is insane, car drives by itself, again, just insanely awesome. However, after nearly 2 year ownership, I sold it and purchased my GT4. The Tesla has no soul, no sound, no rumbling, etc after a while, you realize something is missing. EV cars will always be missing a soul.
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10-12-2021, 01:05 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
So reading thru this it seems like there is some consensus that we may see 2022 GT4s being the last for that submodel, with the GT4RS running production thru the 2022 - 2023 model yrs. A HYBRID/EV solution for the next gen Cayman comes in 2024 or 2025.
Almost more fun anticipating the Cayman options then what we in America face for the 2024 elections.
Almost more fun anticipating the Cayman options then what we in America face for the 2024 elections.
Last edited by phefner; 10-12-2021 at 01:07 PM.
10-12-2021, 01:06 PM
#30
I purchased a Tesla Model 3 performance edition and I honestly have to say it’s the best car I have ever owned. Having 470 torque available at any speed is insane, car drives by itself, again, just insanely awesome. However, after nearly 2 year ownership, I sold it and purchased my GT4. The Tesla has no soul, no sound, no rumbling, etc after a while, you realize something is missing. EV cars will always be missing a soul.
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