Mixed break-in stories..
10-05-2021, 01:00 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
I remapped that to a slightly more conservative break-in that has the advantage of being easier to mentally track in the US at 100 mile intervals and 500 rpm increments.
I don't really understand the binary nature of the official recommendation, it just does feel right to stay low for 2k miles and then suddenly just let it rip.
I don't really understand the binary nature of the official recommendation, it just does feel right to stay low for 2k miles and then suddenly just let it rip.
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P-car-Vancouver (10-05-2021)
11-15-2021, 10:45 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
I only drive my Cayman about 3-4k miles per year. If I didn't rev it out before 1000 miles it would take me 4 months. That's not very practical for a break in period.
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Leonel (12-18-2022)
11-28-2021, 12:14 PM
#33
Advanced
Porsche757 - Thank you very much for this thorough explanation. I expect to receive my brand new Panamera in about 30 days, and I am more than happy to invest a little restraint for the first 2000 miles, to optimize my car's performance, and life span. Your explanation makes a lot of sense, and I like that it came from the Porsche factory engineers instead of someone on Youtube who may have no idea what they are talking about. I'm a little surprised that the Porsche dealers are not emphasizing this more with their customers (the cynical voice in my head says that like a dentist who says 'eat a lot of candy, and we'll see you soon', the Porsche dealer may prefer that their customers abuse their cars by driving too aggressively, so they get more service business.).
11-28-2021, 01:27 PM
#34
Yep, this thread is a good read. I’m at 1600 miles and taking it now to 6500 RPM. At 1800 miles, I’ll be up to 7500. I’ve been gradually increasing the rpm’s since I hit 1,000 miles. It’s so difficult as the car really wants to run and gives you fantastic feedback when you let it.
11-28-2021, 02:34 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Guys,
I went as close as possible to what Porsche said to do for the 2,000 miles Break-In for the USA.
No Cruise Control.
No Lugging the engine.
Not going over the 4,000 RPM if at all possible.
No-Regrets but it was sometimes not a fun thing to adhere to.
My reasoning for going by what Porsche said is simple ...........
This will no-doubt be my last Sports Car so I made the decision to just tough it out and go by the book.
Terry
I went as close as possible to what Porsche said to do for the 2,000 miles Break-In for the USA.
No Cruise Control.
No Lugging the engine.
Not going over the 4,000 RPM if at all possible.
No-Regrets but it was sometimes not a fun thing to adhere to.
My reasoning for going by what Porsche said is simple ...........
This will no-doubt be my last Sports Car so I made the decision to just tough it out and go by the book.
Terry
Last edited by tigerhonaker; 11-30-2021 at 11:03 AM.
11-28-2021, 03:13 PM
#37
Banned
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Originally Posted by GrantG
For my GT3, it’s 1500km (930 miles) under 7k rpm in Europe or 2,000 miles under 4K rpm in USA. What would be the reason for that?
Last edited by LexVan; 11-28-2021 at 04:12 PM.
11-28-2021, 05:36 PM
#39
11-28-2021, 08:02 PM
#40
I like this article - sticks to the manual with good reasons why: https://yel.pca.org/porsche-engine-break-in/
New Engine Break-in Conundrum
By: Ken Koop-The Yellowstone Region (Old Faithful Newsletter)Since I was a young boy, I have always wondered why it takes so long to break-in a new engine–especially those built by Porsche. Most people driving new cars also do not fully understand the real reason for the break-in period. Are you one of them? A good friend of mine just picked up his brand new 911 Turbo and complained about the break-in period taking so long (2,000 miles, not exceeding 4,000 RPM). We have talked about this issue many times over the past few years, always coming up with many scenarios of why such a long break-in period is required. However, we have never agreed on a reasonable answer. Well, you are about to find out the reason Porsche requires the break-in period it has today. The answer comes directly from the engineers at Porsche.
I was on a recent Porsche factory tour and was watching an engine being built and dyno tested. Each engine is built by a single person on a moving production line. Porsche feels that they can obtain better quality control with one person building an individual engine from start to finish. In addition, each engine builder can assemble every type of production engine that Porsche produces and every gasoline engine is still built at the Stuttgart factory. It takes 2-3 ½ hours to assemble each engine, depending on the type. Afterwards, the completed engines are either used in the cars produced at the Zuffenhausen factory or are boxed up and shipped to Leipzig (for the Cayenne and Panamera) or off to Finland (for the Boxster and Cayman).
Before all of the parts are assembled for a particular engine; the pistons, connecting rods and valves are individually weighed and grouped together using similar weights to optimize performance. They are put onto a cart that moves along the assembly line with each engine block. This cart contains every part required to assemble that particular engine which includes each washer, nut, bolt, bearing etc… As a result, if any part is left in the cart at the end of the assembly line, then—Houston, we have a problem! At the end of the assembly line, the engine is filled with Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil. Each engine is then dry run (without fuel), pressure tested and checked for leaks. Every car coming off the production line is also run on a rolling road dyno. This enables all cars and engines to be tested at highway speed before they leave the factory.
Some of the engines are also randomly selected to be tested on a dyno stand before they are installed into the car. The assembly plant has 5 dyno rooms located directly off the production line. The day I was on the tour, there were around 40 engines lined up on dollies. Some of these engines were in the process of being tested for quality control purposes. Once the engine is bolted onto the dyno, warm water is circulated throughout the engine to bring it up to temperature. The operator then starts the engine and checks for the correct pressures and temperature before the actual test begins. Engine speed is then increased in RPM steps to about 80% of its red line (the engine’s maximum RPM). The entire engine run takes around 30 minutes. Since each engine type (Turbo, GT3, Boxster or Carrera…) has a different red line, all of the data is recorded and analyzed after the test is completed.After the engine is turned off, the engine is again checked for seal leaks and its actual HP is compared to its advertised HP. To pass final inspection, the engine has to develop, at a minimum, 100% of what its advertised HP rating is. Also, the engine cannot produce more than 5% over that same advertised rating. If the engine falls out of those parameters, the engine is rejected and then torn down to determine why it did not deliver the anticipated HP.When the test was completed, a Porsche engineer came over to review the results. I couldn’t resist asking the question that I had been searching to find an answer to for all these years. I asked “why does Porsche feel it is safe for a new engine to run at nearly full throttle in the factory, while the customer must keep the engine speed to no more than 4,000 RPM for a 2,000 mile break-in period?” I thought that was a logical question and if I do say so myself-well stated! The engineer replied, “Herr Koop, you do not understand (that I already knew). When we do our engine test, the metals inside the engine never reach the temperatures they would when driven on the street since the test session is fairly short. In other words, the bearings, pistons and cylinders never get a chance to thermally expand to their maximum. Therefore, there is little wear on the moving components. But when you drive a car on the street, the engine parts expand considerably more because of the heat being generated from the engine running for an extended period of time. No matter how tight the tolerances are, there is always a slight amount of expansion in the material. The moving parts can wear quickly if exposed to excessive heat and not always in a uniform way. We also constantly vary the speed and allow the engine to run at both high and low RPM’s”.
“Porsche wants the engine to break-in slowly, which means it needs to maintain a lower operating temperature (below 4,000 RPM) and to allow all parts to adjust (wear-in) within their own thermal expansion parameters. This is also the reason why Porsche wants the owner to vary the RPM throughout the break-in period; therefore the engine doesn’t get use to one operating temperature range”.
“Porsche has been using Mobil 1 Oil since the early 90’s. With its superior lubricating properties, it takes many miles of driving (without getting the engine too hot) before the components actually seat (or break-in). Porsche’s own tests reveal that after 2,000 miles have been driven, all of the moving parts have had a chance to wear into their adjacent surfaces and then an increase in engine RPM is permissible.” I replied, “JA DAS SOUNDS GUT, when you explain it that way, it makes a lot of sense.” I thought to myself “You Dummkopf, why didn’t you think of that”.
The engineer commented that there were many other moving parts other than the engine that needed break-in as well. Wheel bearings, constant velocity joints, tires, brakes and transmission were just some of the other components that were mentioned.
So breaking it down into layman’s terminology, it all comes down to; higher RPM equates to more heat, which leads to greater expansion. For a new engine, that can mean uneven wear on certain parts if excessive heat is allowed to build up. In Porsche’s opinion, the thermal expansion of different parts and various materials need time to adjust to one another. Porsche’s time frame for that to occur is calculated to be 2,000 miles, with the heat restriction being 4,000 RPM. So simple; who woulda thunk.
Many experienced Porsche engine builders and experts on the Flat-6 engine state that the peak power of a Porsche engine is developed around the 20,000 mile mark. This coincides with the principle of what the Porsche engineer was telling me; “Break it in correctly and the engine will last longer and perform better”.
It only took me 45 years to find out the real answer to this puzzling question. After I returned home, I explained this to my friend. As for our ongoing debate, we now feel a solution to this riddle has finally been reached. Neither one of us had the answer to this complex question totally figured out, but we were on the right path! I am finally able to resolve another one of my life’s unanswered mysteries and now it’s been crossed off the list. I hope this helps explain one of your unanswered questions in the car world as well.
New Engine Break-in Conundrum
By: Ken Koop-The Yellowstone Region (Old Faithful Newsletter)Since I was a young boy, I have always wondered why it takes so long to break-in a new engine–especially those built by Porsche. Most people driving new cars also do not fully understand the real reason for the break-in period. Are you one of them? A good friend of mine just picked up his brand new 911 Turbo and complained about the break-in period taking so long (2,000 miles, not exceeding 4,000 RPM). We have talked about this issue many times over the past few years, always coming up with many scenarios of why such a long break-in period is required. However, we have never agreed on a reasonable answer. Well, you are about to find out the reason Porsche requires the break-in period it has today. The answer comes directly from the engineers at Porsche.
I was on a recent Porsche factory tour and was watching an engine being built and dyno tested. Each engine is built by a single person on a moving production line. Porsche feels that they can obtain better quality control with one person building an individual engine from start to finish. In addition, each engine builder can assemble every type of production engine that Porsche produces and every gasoline engine is still built at the Stuttgart factory. It takes 2-3 ½ hours to assemble each engine, depending on the type. Afterwards, the completed engines are either used in the cars produced at the Zuffenhausen factory or are boxed up and shipped to Leipzig (for the Cayenne and Panamera) or off to Finland (for the Boxster and Cayman).
Before all of the parts are assembled for a particular engine; the pistons, connecting rods and valves are individually weighed and grouped together using similar weights to optimize performance. They are put onto a cart that moves along the assembly line with each engine block. This cart contains every part required to assemble that particular engine which includes each washer, nut, bolt, bearing etc… As a result, if any part is left in the cart at the end of the assembly line, then—Houston, we have a problem! At the end of the assembly line, the engine is filled with Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil. Each engine is then dry run (without fuel), pressure tested and checked for leaks. Every car coming off the production line is also run on a rolling road dyno. This enables all cars and engines to be tested at highway speed before they leave the factory.
Some of the engines are also randomly selected to be tested on a dyno stand before they are installed into the car. The assembly plant has 5 dyno rooms located directly off the production line. The day I was on the tour, there were around 40 engines lined up on dollies. Some of these engines were in the process of being tested for quality control purposes. Once the engine is bolted onto the dyno, warm water is circulated throughout the engine to bring it up to temperature. The operator then starts the engine and checks for the correct pressures and temperature before the actual test begins. Engine speed is then increased in RPM steps to about 80% of its red line (the engine’s maximum RPM). The entire engine run takes around 30 minutes. Since each engine type (Turbo, GT3, Boxster or Carrera…) has a different red line, all of the data is recorded and analyzed after the test is completed.After the engine is turned off, the engine is again checked for seal leaks and its actual HP is compared to its advertised HP. To pass final inspection, the engine has to develop, at a minimum, 100% of what its advertised HP rating is. Also, the engine cannot produce more than 5% over that same advertised rating. If the engine falls out of those parameters, the engine is rejected and then torn down to determine why it did not deliver the anticipated HP.When the test was completed, a Porsche engineer came over to review the results. I couldn’t resist asking the question that I had been searching to find an answer to for all these years. I asked “why does Porsche feel it is safe for a new engine to run at nearly full throttle in the factory, while the customer must keep the engine speed to no more than 4,000 RPM for a 2,000 mile break-in period?” I thought that was a logical question and if I do say so myself-well stated! The engineer replied, “Herr Koop, you do not understand (that I already knew). When we do our engine test, the metals inside the engine never reach the temperatures they would when driven on the street since the test session is fairly short. In other words, the bearings, pistons and cylinders never get a chance to thermally expand to their maximum. Therefore, there is little wear on the moving components. But when you drive a car on the street, the engine parts expand considerably more because of the heat being generated from the engine running for an extended period of time. No matter how tight the tolerances are, there is always a slight amount of expansion in the material. The moving parts can wear quickly if exposed to excessive heat and not always in a uniform way. We also constantly vary the speed and allow the engine to run at both high and low RPM’s”.
“Porsche wants the engine to break-in slowly, which means it needs to maintain a lower operating temperature (below 4,000 RPM) and to allow all parts to adjust (wear-in) within their own thermal expansion parameters. This is also the reason why Porsche wants the owner to vary the RPM throughout the break-in period; therefore the engine doesn’t get use to one operating temperature range”.
“Porsche has been using Mobil 1 Oil since the early 90’s. With its superior lubricating properties, it takes many miles of driving (without getting the engine too hot) before the components actually seat (or break-in). Porsche’s own tests reveal that after 2,000 miles have been driven, all of the moving parts have had a chance to wear into their adjacent surfaces and then an increase in engine RPM is permissible.” I replied, “JA DAS SOUNDS GUT, when you explain it that way, it makes a lot of sense.” I thought to myself “You Dummkopf, why didn’t you think of that”.
The engineer commented that there were many other moving parts other than the engine that needed break-in as well. Wheel bearings, constant velocity joints, tires, brakes and transmission were just some of the other components that were mentioned.
So breaking it down into layman’s terminology, it all comes down to; higher RPM equates to more heat, which leads to greater expansion. For a new engine, that can mean uneven wear on certain parts if excessive heat is allowed to build up. In Porsche’s opinion, the thermal expansion of different parts and various materials need time to adjust to one another. Porsche’s time frame for that to occur is calculated to be 2,000 miles, with the heat restriction being 4,000 RPM. So simple; who woulda thunk.
Many experienced Porsche engine builders and experts on the Flat-6 engine state that the peak power of a Porsche engine is developed around the 20,000 mile mark. This coincides with the principle of what the Porsche engineer was telling me; “Break it in correctly and the engine will last longer and perform better”.
It only took me 45 years to find out the real answer to this puzzling question. After I returned home, I explained this to my friend. As for our ongoing debate, we now feel a solution to this riddle has finally been reached. Neither one of us had the answer to this complex question totally figured out, but we were on the right path! I am finally able to resolve another one of my life’s unanswered mysteries and now it’s been crossed off the list. I hope this helps explain one of your unanswered questions in the car world as well.
Last edited by VVG; 12-10-2021 at 02:29 PM.
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Zhao (11-28-2021)
11-28-2021, 08:08 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
For some reason I drove one of my 981 Spyders out of the dealership in NYC and started a 1 week trip across the country. The dealership recommended that since I would be driving long hours on the highway at steady speed - I would need to vary my RPMs to do a successful break-in (under 2700 RPMS). That's what I was told and that was what I did. Made for quite a ride.
Last edited by jeanrabelais; 11-29-2021 at 11:56 AM.
11-28-2021, 08:13 PM
#42
Drifting
Okay....but wouldn't 1000 miles at 4000 rpm produces the same degree of engine break-in as 2000 miles at 2000 rpm? Yes, it would. That's why the whole break-in based on miles is complete BS. And wouldn't occasional bursts in rpm with sufficient cool down be just fine? After all, it is easy to look at engine temps, no? I guarantee that if I am driving along at 3000 rpm and gun to to 7000rpm for just a brief acceleration run, the engine temps are not going to be any higher than if I was running continuously at 4000rpm. So, yes, there needs to be a break in, but it is should be based on revolutions and sustained engine temperatures, and not on miles driven or an rpm limit.
11-28-2021, 10:22 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
As we are supposed get snow tonight and weather a bit cold for the sportcup 2s my new toy has been put into winter hibernation w/180 miles on it. Come spring, I should have no problem doing the 1st thousand moderately and then it will be track time. Computers doing what they do, I can imagine a blown engine scenario where big brother looks at the stored data and tells me I was a bad boy,
11-28-2021, 11:11 PM
#44
If the filter was catching all of the loose engine particles, the oil test would show no metal count.
Ultimately, it is your personal choice.
11-29-2021, 04:44 PM
#45
Racer
Since the goal behind a good break-in procedure is maximizing longevity and performance, it might be worth noting in this thread that warm-up practices for cold starts are likely equally or more important than break-in guidelines:
BMW had a consistent recommendation for many years that was easy to follow:
Start the car up, let it stabilize for a minute or so, then begin driving gently so as to minimize the time it takes to get up to temperature.
(Do not warm it up by leaving it for an extended period of idling)
RPMs should be limited and raised incrementally as everything comes up to operating temperature.
Does anyone who has taken delivery know what PAG says in this regard in the 718 OM?
BMW had a consistent recommendation for many years that was easy to follow:
Start the car up, let it stabilize for a minute or so, then begin driving gently so as to minimize the time it takes to get up to temperature.
(Do not warm it up by leaving it for an extended period of idling)
RPMs should be limited and raised incrementally as everything comes up to operating temperature.
Does anyone who has taken delivery know what PAG says in this regard in the 718 OM?