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A few question for those who have installed harnesses. What have you done and why. Not interested in a full cage and looking for a 5/6 point. I really like the Simpson harness that has the narrower shoulder belts to accommodate a HANs device if I decided to go that way.
RSS harness bar looks like a good solution, so does the Brey-Krause.
The BK harness mount is intended to be used with a half cage. Using it by itself is not the best in case of a rollover since the roof can be crushed while your head, etc is kept upright.
The BK harness mount is intended to be used with a half cage. Using it by itself is not the best in case of a rollover since the roof can be crushed while your head, etc is kept upright.
This. Being restrained upright by a harness without roll protection is not a good idea. With 3 pt OEM belt your body is able to rotate towards middle of car to prevent crushing. Not with a harness. Best and safest option is to go with roll bar (no need for full cage), 5-6 pt harness (or at a minimum 4 pt Schroth ASM to avoid submarining under lapbelt (look it up on youtube - scary!) and HANS device. A frontal impact even at low/medium speed with a helmet on your head can end up in spinal cord injury from increased inertia of the combined head and helmet weight. You never hope to use either of this equipment but will be glad to have it if something turns sour.
A lot of companies make HANS specific harnesses with shoulder belts that go from 2” to 3”, however you should know that is is not recommended that you use that harness without HANS device on.
Another thing you’ll need is some sort of sub belt mount, BBI has a solution that makes that pretty easy.
As far as harness bars goes, as others have alluded to, you really do want some extra roll-over protection via the means of a rollbar… that said, I am a little conflicted about putting a rollbar into a street car so I’ll leave that to the owner.
Safety equipment is all or nothing in my books, so it’s either a caged race car with fire suppression, window and driver nets or nothing at all.
Do the US spec cars have the fastening points for harnesses? My car has the clubsport package which includes cutouts in the carpet for all of the bolt down points. If that's the case then you might be able to just get a set of fittings, cut the sound deadening and unscrew the bolts that are in the bulkhead and fit everything as per a clubsport equipped car? Or do US spec cars skip those points entirely?
Obviously people are going to do what they want, acknowledging the above conversation about roll cages and harnesses in rollovers. I am not going to be so opinionated to say what is right and wrong when an element of it is up to individuals to decide what is suitable for them based on the type of circuits and driving they do. If you are driving a track with a lot of concrete barriers then I would probably want to run HANS regardless, as a frontal impact is probably much more likely than a rollover that caves the roof in on you. If you drive high speed circuits with no barriers and lots of gravel traps then the chance of a rollover is much greater so you might want to change strategy there. At the end of the day these are street cars, not full blown race cars so compromises need to be made somewhere. You're still going to be a heck of a lot safer than the average track day car which passes safety standards no problem.
Does anyone know why the clubsport pack is not available in North America? People still criticize that package because the harness attaches to the bulkhead and not the roll bar so you really can't win at the end of the day with some people.
Its interesting that most of the suppliers of bolt-in rollbars are careful to say they can not vouche for the added rollover protection they provide (compared to say a welded in cage). They seem to be a compromise at best and not necessarily the right compromise for everyone. In my 987.2 I installed one, but in the end after seeing how it was secured in place was not convinced of how much benefit it would offer in a rollover severe enough to crush a modern porsche roof. Good to be informed but its obvious there is not a lot of good evidence on them
Do the US spec cars have the fastening points for harnesses? My car has the clubsport package which includes cutouts in the carpet for all of the bolt down points. If that's the case then you might be able to just get a set of fittings, cut the sound deadening and unscrew the bolts that are in the bulkhead and fit everything as per a clubsport equipped car? Or do US spec cars skip those points entirely?
Obviously people are going to do what they want, acknowledging the above conversation about roll cages and harnesses in rollovers. I am not going to be so opinionated to say what is right and wrong when an element of it is up to individuals to decide what is suitable for them based on the type of circuits and driving they do. If you are driving a track with a lot of concrete barriers then I would probably want to run HANS regardless, as a frontal impact is probably much more likely than a rollover that caves the roof in on you. If you drive high speed circuits with no barriers and lots of gravel traps then the chance of a rollover is much greater so you might want to change strategy there. At the end of the day these are street cars, not full blown race cars so compromises need to be made somewhere. You're still going to be a heck of a lot safer than the average track day car which passes safety standards no problem.
Does anyone know why the clubsport pack is not available in North America? People still criticize that package because the harness attaches to the bulkhead and not the roll bar so you really can't win at the end of the day with some people.
Agree with what you said.
re USA harness mounts. when i installed my BK harness mounts i checked. The US GT4 does not have the same harness or rollbar install points as a clubsport conpatible european car. Am guessing its some regulatory rule.
Does anyone know why the clubsport pack is not available in North America? People still criticize that package because the harness attaches to the bulkhead and not the roll bar so you really can't win at the end of the day with some people.
It has something to do with a small person bouncing around, being thrown into an unpaded hard structural piece. Thats why the US LWBs even have that little leather pad on the CF between the headrest and the backrest of those seats.
I'd like to know the story, but this does not appear to be a regular roll over situation. Not advocating skipping safety but I don't think this is really representative.
It seems pretty simple. A harness fixes you to the seat, so if there's ever a roll-over there's an increased risk of your melon getting smooshed. A roll bar, while not as effective as a full cage, adds extra insurance against the smooshing. None of us want to think we'll ever be in an accident, let alone one where the car rolls over, but it does happen. $2,500 for a roll bar is a lot less expensive than death or a lifetime of assisted living. If, for whatever reason that math doesn't work out for you, then you're probably better off with the OEM seatbelt and a Simpson Hybrid S.
I'd like to know the story, but this does not appear to be a regular roll over situation. Not advocating skipping safety but I don't think this is really representative.
it was a roll over on a road. Consider a roll over on track and getting T boned in the roof. It has happened. As for being representative, it only has to happen once. That’s why it’s called an accident.
09-19-2021, 09:22 AM
Harness & Bar recommendations
