slilley

See my pics and feedback in post 208 above. I've now had one season on the 10mm wider tires, and will definitely continue using this size. While I don't love the Cup2 tires on the street, they worked well on the track. Looks like I'll need a new set of rear tires at the end of this season, but the fronts will be good for another season.

BoxKing

Cups are really good track tires, but they get a bad wrap due to their price point when compared to comparable performing sets. Cups feel like rocks on the street when compared to say MPS4/MPS5’s, which to me should be everyone’s street tire. They’re even good for light track work; cold, rainy, or even if someone only goes 1-2 times a year.

LZ24

I saw that but forgot to ask you a follow up, I actually went through all the replies in this thread... Could you specify what aspect of the Cup2s you don't like on the street? Do you find you run through them faster than the PS4S? If so, how many miles for each? More road noise I suspect? Also, I didn't find any N1 Cup2s, so any issues with running a non-Porsche speced tires? Will you consider go up to the GT4 size Cup2s?

I'm at San Francisco Bay, so for me on the street, the lowest operation temp will be 50F year round, and I won't take the car out if it's rainy. I would assume I won't have any grip issues with the Cup2s? Would love to hear your input!

LZ24

Kinda asked all my questions to Slilley in my response to him/her. Would love to hear your input if you don't mind to share your experience with the Cup2s. Price-wise, I actually find them similar on Tire Rack? For N tires for 235/35 & 295/30, Cup2 is only $70 more per set. I would assume you're saying it's more pricy because we run through them quicker?

slilley

From a performance and handling perspective, I think the Cup2 and PS4S tires are comparable on the street assuming the Cup2 tires are up to temperature. But the Cup2 tires have much lower grip levels than the PS4S for the first 10-15 minutes of driving, and possibly longer if the when the outdoor temps are cooler. I've had a couple ***-clenching moments on the street on cold Cup2 tires - something that NEVER happened with the PS4S tires. Imho, the Cup2 tires only have an advantage for people tracking them more than 3-4 times per year. I also find the PS4S tires better at AutoX than Cup2's, but obviously I have no way to do a direct back-to-back comparison due to the nature of AutoX. I did win my class at the 2022 Porsche Parade on stock PS4S tires. Road noise wasn't dramatically different/worse with Cup2 tires. I personally have no issue running non-N/non-Porsche-spec tires. I'm not a good enough driver to sense the difference between either. I may return to PS4S tires (or their replacements) at some point in the future, but for my use-case I'm going to stick with Cup2's through at least another set of rear tires. PS4S are simply the best summer street tire out there, so unless you plan to spend more than 4 days at the track, I'd stick with PS4S tires. PS4S tires are also much better in the wet. And I've had no issues with 10mm wider front and rear tires in 245/35ZR20 front, 275/35ZR20 rear sizes. No matter what tires I'm using, I'm sticking with these sizes from here on out.

718GTS4L

i remember reading a comment on the other 718forum that someone compared the PS4S back to back with the pzeros.

Porsche PS4S has softer side wall. this gives it less road feel / feedback vs the pzeros on track (dry road and warm day). However, the PS4S wins on wet and colder weather handling.

maybe the pzeros would be the best for those looking for in between cup2s and PS4S.

lowbee

My OEM Pzeros are holding up pretty good after 3 track days and I am starting to like them. They are pretty predictable on track if you keep the pressure around 36 psi hot

LZ24

Thanks Slilley. For my use, when the stock P Zero is done, I think I will be better off with the PS4S then. Still debating between N0 245/35 & 295/30 vs non-N0 245/35 & 275/35. I probably run through each of them for the next 2 sets then stick with one from there. PSS5 may already be out by then... We will see.

NEUN_ELF

Question for those who have fitted wider than stock tires on the GTS 4.0 - does the car rotate as freely as it did with the stock width tires? The car’s neutral balance and willingness to rotate through turns is something I like. I don’t track the car so don’t care about lap times, and instead prioritize fun factor on back roads, etc. Ability to get the car to rotate without hitting ridiculous speeds is a good thing to me.

I don’t love the stretched look so would love to go with something wider, but not if it is going to make the car grip so hard that it won’t rotate as well.

I’ve also been very happy thus far with the pirellis I got in the lottery. Great feel and great grip. I’ll eventually switch to Michelin PS4s when I hit ~10k miles but was expecting much worse based on the comments here on the pirellis.

Apex Wheels

It depends on how you go with wider than stock tires. Let's assume we are keeping the tire compound the same. If we increase tire width evenly front to rear, so a 245/275 combo or 255/285 combo, then the inherent balance should be the same but the overall limits of the car will be raised. So the balance of the car that you enjoy should still be there, but it would take more speed to get the car out of shape or to rotate into a corner.

If we change the car to the OEM GT4 tire setup, going from 235/265 to 245/295, we will be altering the balance. This will change the balance of the car reducing the amount of rear-end rotation as we have provided more rear grip than front grip.

This is just surface level observations, as sway bar adjustments, tire pressure, camber, toe, and shock settings will all affect this as well.

- Brandon

NEUN_ELF

thank you, very helpful! I suppose my question is - how significant of a grip increase did people notice going to a slightly wider setup front and back? I would maintain the f/r balance, probably a 245/275.

I recall that on the GT86s and ND Miatas, the engineers adorn the cars with lower performance tires to make them fun to drive (easy to rotate). Our cars obviously have much higher power to weight ratios and can exploit sticky compound rubber with ease. I just don’t want to lose the brilliantly fun character I adore about the CGTS. I’ve never driven a car more approachably lively around bends. I’m reluctant to mess with ANYTHING in the dynamics department for that reason. But I dislike the stretched look of the stock tires and would gladly go wider if you all haven’t noticed much of an impact.

Apex Wheels

I have had no customers come back disappointed in the way the car feels after adding grip to their car (disclaimer, they are generally also adding lighter wheels to the car at the same time which could be affecting their outlook). I can't even give you personal experience as I have always changed tire models when moving away from the OEM tire size on a Cayman. Hopefully someone else in this thread has done this exact thing and can you proper feedback.

- Brandon

decibel_fiend

Don't want to hijack, hopefully this is somewhat tangential of a topic:

What are people doing for winter for those who live somewhere cold (e.g. NYC)? I am contemplating the following:

Option 1: keep one set of wheels (the stock wheels) and just put on MPS 4 all season ZP (apparently these perform as well as super sports on track... I was doing 1:29s at NJMP T-Bolt with these tires on my Z06 in 42F conditions). Would just drive on these year round; my CGTS4.0 won't be tracked. Are summer tires MPS4S that much better than all seasons in backroads driving?

Option 2: get a cheap set of winter wheels and put on winter tires. Keep the stock rims for summer.

Option 3: go with option 1 but in the spring, get a set of Apex VS-5RS and run a larger summer tire (255/285 or something).

Apex Wheels

It is really up to you how you tackle the need for winter tires. You can get the Michelin PS4 all season or Conti DWS06+ in the OEM 20" tire sizes. Both are great all-season tires. If you need a true winter tire, then you have to go down to 19" wheels.

In terms of backroad driving, I much prefer my experience with summer tires over all seasons on my Cayman or with friends BMW's. I also live where it is warm most of the time and do not need all seasons or winter tires. If I had to make an annual swap to a different street tire, I may have a different opinion as that would add another set of wheels on top of my dedicated street and dedicated track set.

Shoot me a PM if you have any wheel related questions.

- Brandon

slilley

Going 10mm wider only gives you ~4% wider contact patch. I honestly can't tell a difference - and I changed from PS4S to Cup2 tires at the same time. I doubt most of us would be able to detect a difference from the extra 10mm tire width...maybe we get an additional 0.01 or 0.02 G's in the corner, but you're rarely at that limit on the street except for the occasional off-ramp/on-ramp. The car certainly doesn't rotate as freely as my old NC Miata (on either the stock sizes or the 10mm wider sizes), but that car only had 215mm tires front and rear and you could slide it around much easier using the gas and brake pedals.

I was really hoping that I'd be blown away with the Cup2 tires, but I think the best part about them is that they stand up better to being punished at the track than the PS4S tires that my car came with.