718 GT4 - Hand gun storage / products?
07-04-2021, 05:01 PM
#136
Since this thread has moved off topic so much, I'll add more:
Happy Independence Day!
And from a speech delivered by President Coolidge on the 150th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, July 4th, 1926:
About the Declaration there is a finality that is exceedingly restful. It is often asserted that the world has made a great deal of progress since 1776, that we have had new thoughts and new experiences which have given us a great advance over the people of that day, and that we may therefore very well discard their conclusions for something more modern. But that reasoning can not be applied to this great charter. If all men are created equal, that is final. If they are endowed with inalienable rights, that is final. If governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, that is final. No advance, no progress can be made beyond these propositions. If anyone wishes to deny their truth or their soundness, the only direction in which he can proceed historically is not forward, but backward toward the time when there was no equality, no rights of the individual, no rule of the people. Those who wish to proceed in that direction can not lay claim to progress. They are reactionary. Their ideas are not more modern, but more ancient, than those of the Revolutionary fathers.
Happy Independence Day!
And from a speech delivered by President Coolidge on the 150th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, July 4th, 1926:
About the Declaration there is a finality that is exceedingly restful. It is often asserted that the world has made a great deal of progress since 1776, that we have had new thoughts and new experiences which have given us a great advance over the people of that day, and that we may therefore very well discard their conclusions for something more modern. But that reasoning can not be applied to this great charter. If all men are created equal, that is final. If they are endowed with inalienable rights, that is final. If governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, that is final. No advance, no progress can be made beyond these propositions. If anyone wishes to deny their truth or their soundness, the only direction in which he can proceed historically is not forward, but backward toward the time when there was no equality, no rights of the individual, no rule of the people. Those who wish to proceed in that direction can not lay claim to progress. They are reactionary. Their ideas are not more modern, but more ancient, than those of the Revolutionary fathers.
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teej05 (02-15-2024)
07-04-2021, 05:30 PM
#137
I clicked on this link sure to be disappointed by the level of engagement and it fully lived up to my expectations. I understand that the topic of guns is one that has very strong opinions and certainly everyone should be free to express their opinions. But this forum doesn't exist for political purposes and the OP was not expressing or asking for a political opinion. He is considering obtaining a firearm. He seems to understand the great responsibility that gun ownership entails and is sincerely interested in being responsible by finding a way to secure his firearm in his vehicle. Whether you agree or disagree with whether we should have guns, surely we can all agree that we want people who have them to behave responsibly. Ideally the engagement on this topic would come from that shared premise. I take the comment about whether the gun should be German to either be a bit of humor or a recognition that there are a number of high quality German gun makers. If a person was to ask for advice how to mount a crucifix, I wouldn't try to convince him to not do so even though I am a hard core atheist - why? Because he is free to believe what he wants and I can choose to either engage him on the terms he requested or I can ignore him but I'm not going to insult him by challenging his beliefs.
So that is how I'm approaching this.
To OP: regarding a choice of weapon - you really should go to a range where they rent weapons. If they sell them too, they'll probably provide you a lot of instruction to make the sale. If not, it would be worth to pay for instruction so that when you go to make a purchase you will know what is appropriate for you. Obviously there are many factors to consider but I'd make these 3 my focus: 1) Size - if you're going to carry on your person at any point, you need it to be concealable (even in an open carry state, it is just stupid to not conceal). That means you need to consider the size of your body and the size of the gun. When I first bought a gun, I bought a Beretta 92FS because guns scare me and my research showed that it had been testing by the military to NEVER accidentally fire when the safety was engaged (the safety rotates the firing pin by about 45 degrees so it can't possibly hit the shell by mistake). Problem was that I'm 5'7" and the 92FS is a VERY large gun - long and high. The only place I could put it was in the small of my back and that only worked if I was standing and in a jacket. I couldn't sit, I couldn't use a shoulder holster, etc,. So physical dimensions matter. 2) Control - basically all guns have some kick but some kick more than others. I moved to an HK7 after my Beretta and it has a gas-recoil cylinder which makes it easier to control. Whether shooting targets or if the worst happens and you find yourself in a position where you may to use it in a life-or-death situation, you want to be certain you can regain control after each shot quickly - a gun you can't control can't protect you and could endanger others. 3) Stopping power - A 22 is easy to control and easy to conceal/carry but generally doesn't have the kind of power most people would want if they were convinced that using a firearm was their only means of protecting themselves or another person. A 40 or 45 has a lot more stopping power but usually in the form of a larger weapon (harder to carry) and/or with less control. So these 3 factors kind of all work in opposition to one another and you have to find the optimal mix. Obviously quality is key as well. You get what you pay for so research quality in terms of factors like wear, tear, misfires, etc.
Regarding securing the weapon in your vehicle. I've had 4 Cayman/Boxster vehicles and I can't see any way of installing a secure gun safe in the interior of the car. You can hide it under the seat or in the door panel or behind the seat cubbies but none of those are truly secure. If you want true mobile security, I'd get a true handgun safe and mount it in either the trunk or frunk (securing it to the frame - not the firewall). That makes the gun truly secure but at the cost of accessibility.
Glad you're doing research, seeking advice, and considering your particular needs/circumstances before making a purchase. Only you can decide what is appropriate for you.
So that is how I'm approaching this.
To OP: regarding a choice of weapon - you really should go to a range where they rent weapons. If they sell them too, they'll probably provide you a lot of instruction to make the sale. If not, it would be worth to pay for instruction so that when you go to make a purchase you will know what is appropriate for you. Obviously there are many factors to consider but I'd make these 3 my focus: 1) Size - if you're going to carry on your person at any point, you need it to be concealable (even in an open carry state, it is just stupid to not conceal). That means you need to consider the size of your body and the size of the gun. When I first bought a gun, I bought a Beretta 92FS because guns scare me and my research showed that it had been testing by the military to NEVER accidentally fire when the safety was engaged (the safety rotates the firing pin by about 45 degrees so it can't possibly hit the shell by mistake). Problem was that I'm 5'7" and the 92FS is a VERY large gun - long and high. The only place I could put it was in the small of my back and that only worked if I was standing and in a jacket. I couldn't sit, I couldn't use a shoulder holster, etc,. So physical dimensions matter. 2) Control - basically all guns have some kick but some kick more than others. I moved to an HK7 after my Beretta and it has a gas-recoil cylinder which makes it easier to control. Whether shooting targets or if the worst happens and you find yourself in a position where you may to use it in a life-or-death situation, you want to be certain you can regain control after each shot quickly - a gun you can't control can't protect you and could endanger others. 3) Stopping power - A 22 is easy to control and easy to conceal/carry but generally doesn't have the kind of power most people would want if they were convinced that using a firearm was their only means of protecting themselves or another person. A 40 or 45 has a lot more stopping power but usually in the form of a larger weapon (harder to carry) and/or with less control. So these 3 factors kind of all work in opposition to one another and you have to find the optimal mix. Obviously quality is key as well. You get what you pay for so research quality in terms of factors like wear, tear, misfires, etc.
Regarding securing the weapon in your vehicle. I've had 4 Cayman/Boxster vehicles and I can't see any way of installing a secure gun safe in the interior of the car. You can hide it under the seat or in the door panel or behind the seat cubbies but none of those are truly secure. If you want true mobile security, I'd get a true handgun safe and mount it in either the trunk or frunk (securing it to the frame - not the firewall). That makes the gun truly secure but at the cost of accessibility.
Glad you're doing research, seeking advice, and considering your particular needs/circumstances before making a purchase. Only you can decide what is appropriate for you.
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07-04-2021, 06:28 PM
#138
Burning Brakes
And you think the average knucklehead driving around in his car has that kind of training? 
The average handgun owner has zero training and, even if they did, probably wouldn't be very proficient shooting it at a range, much less in a pressure situation. Geez, I wouldn't trust most people to walk my dog, much less play Sheriff on public roads. Your argument is akin to saying, well Randy Pobst is an incredibly well trained race car driver who can handle a car at excessively high speeds, so we should just do away with speed limits for everyone.
The average handgun owner has zero training and, even if they did, probably wouldn't be very proficient shooting it at a range, much less in a pressure situation. Geez, I wouldn't trust most people to walk my dog, much less play Sheriff on public roads. Your argument is akin to saying, well Randy Pobst is an incredibly well trained race car driver who can handle a car at excessively high speeds, so we should just do away with speed limits for everyone.
07-07-2021, 11:18 AM
#139
Rennlist Member
Wouldn't guess at your affiliations Archimedes, I was referring to the ballot box, but I think you knew that.
JD was obviously being facetious when he mentioned a car mounted holster being a standard in TX.
JD was obviously being facetious when he mentioned a car mounted holster being a standard in TX.
07-07-2021, 09:46 PM
#140
Rennlist Member
Retired ATF Agent and before that Police Officer in Miami. Been in two shootouts. If you think you are going to quick draw your handgun and take down a seasoned thug pointing a gun at your temple please think again. Hand over the keys and walk away. The dynamics of that encounter will be nothing like you imagined. If you decide to carry a gun there are two dimensions that must be mastered. The easy part is training with it until it’s use is second nature. The hard part is developing the proper shoot/don’t shoot judgement capacity. Even seasoned cops/military personnel can botch the judgement under pressure dimension. If you carry the responsibility is great.
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07-11-2021, 11:19 PM
#141
Some of the hysterical personal opinions expressed in this thread are entertaining to say the least.
This matter has been settled law for well over a decade.
In 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court recognized an individual right to keep and bear arms in District of Columbia v. Heller.
In 2010, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled, in McDonald v. Chicago, that the individual right to keep and bear arms as protected under the 2nd Amendment, is enforceable against the states per the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment.
Ergo, onerous state and local gun control laws are all but unenforceable since the Heller and McDonald decisions.
If the OP wishes to keep and bear arms in his vehicle, then it’s clearly his civil right and liberty to do so. Simply put, if a person’s actions don’t hurt you or anyone else (your hurt feelings don’t count), then there’s no need to throw tantrums about it.
This matter has been settled law for well over a decade.
In 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court recognized an individual right to keep and bear arms in District of Columbia v. Heller.
In 2010, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled, in McDonald v. Chicago, that the individual right to keep and bear arms as protected under the 2nd Amendment, is enforceable against the states per the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment.
Ergo, onerous state and local gun control laws are all but unenforceable since the Heller and McDonald decisions.
If the OP wishes to keep and bear arms in his vehicle, then it’s clearly his civil right and liberty to do so. Simply put, if a person’s actions don’t hurt you or anyone else (your hurt feelings don’t count), then there’s no need to throw tantrums about it.
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07-11-2021, 11:55 PM
#142
Some of the hysterical personal opinions expressed in this thread are entertaining to say the least.
This matter has been settled law for well over a decade.
In 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court recognized an individual right to keep and bear arms in District of Columbia v. Heller.
In 2010, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled, in McDonald v. Chicago, that the individual right to keep and bear arms as protected under the 2nd Amendment, is enforceable against the states per the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment.
Ergo, onerous state and local gun control laws are all but unenforceable since the Heller and McDonald decisions.
If the OP wishes to keep and bear arms in his vehicle, then it’s clearly his civil right and liberty to do so. Simply put, if a person’s actions don’t hurt you or anyone else (your hurt feelings don’t count), then there’s no need to throw tantrums about it.
This matter has been settled law for well over a decade.
In 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court recognized an individual right to keep and bear arms in District of Columbia v. Heller.
In 2010, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled, in McDonald v. Chicago, that the individual right to keep and bear arms as protected under the 2nd Amendment, is enforceable against the states per the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment.
Ergo, onerous state and local gun control laws are all but unenforceable since the Heller and McDonald decisions.
If the OP wishes to keep and bear arms in his vehicle, then it’s clearly his civil right and liberty to do so. Simply put, if a person’s actions don’t hurt you or anyone else (your hurt feelings don’t count), then there’s no need to throw tantrums about it.
Back on topic though, should the deviated stitching on his holster match the interior or not? I say yes, but I’ve been known to be a little behind the fashion sometimes.
07-16-2021, 05:40 PM
#143
Burning Brakes
The AJC paper had a story on the latest scheme today, the bump-and-jack, where a kid runs into your car with an electric scooter and when you get out to check on him they steel your car. But you get the scooter.
07-16-2021, 08:09 PM
#145
Retired ATF Agent and before that Police Officer in Miami. Been in two shootouts. If you think you are going to quick draw your handgun and take down a seasoned thug pointing a gun at your temple please think again. Hand over the keys and walk away. The dynamics of that encounter will be nothing like you imagined. If you decide to carry a gun there are two dimensions that must be mastered. The easy part is training with it until it’s use is second nature. The hard part is developing the proper shoot/don’t shoot judgement capacity. Even seasoned cops/military personnel can botch the judgement under pressure dimension. If you carry the responsibility is great.
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