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I don't think that anyone is really arguing that the 981 performs better than the 718. Porsche has bumped up the 718 performance just as they have with every previous generation of new car or mid life update. My only gripe with the 718 which is technically unfounded until I drive it is the fact that I have never found a turbo engine to have the same power linearity as an NA car. This for me has always made it difficult to pick the correct gear or apply the right amount of throttle when you're driving the car closer to its limits. I'm sure my novice driving skills play a role in this but I imagine the majority of people buying these cars will have similar skills.
I hope to test drive one soon enough to get an idea of what they're really like.
You're making nonsense arguments to wish away facts you don't like.
What would be an example of a "nonsense argument?" I suppose you could argue that the base (non-SPASM) suspension has been improved in some respects, and bigger brakes are always better (at least until you need to pay for new rotors.) But I don't see much more room to quibble.
The idea of jacking up the price at the same time you move the car downmarket is one of those "That's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for them" moments. It's the sort of thing you might get away with in the middle of a worldwide economic boom, in a market where you have no competition.
BTW, I own two 981's and have no interest in the 718. But I'm not delusional enough to think the new car is anything but a better performer everywhere.
$90K+ buys even more performance from any number of competitors. You don't buy lightweight two-seater Porsches for the numbers.
And to that, you can respond, "But the base price is only $65K!" Trouble with that argument is, buying a zero-option car from Porsche is like buying a PS4 with no games, or a cell phone that you never activate. Their business plan doesn't anticipate selling cars with a zero "attach rate," so to speak. The profit is in the options. (Well, and the exchange rate, I guess.)
When I was deciding what to buy, I drove both an F-type V6 380HP with 6MT. It felt like a hot rod - very fast, screaming loud, but IMO, didn't have the fit/finish/sophistication that the 981S had. Now with the new 718 with a turbo four, and a $5K increase in base price, if I was in the market for a 2 seat sports car again, I think I would more seriously consider the Jaguar, for about the same money. And yes, full leather is very proper for a sports car, which I have in my car. Very subjective, but I don't like alcantara much.
Just went and added almost EVERY option available and kicked the price up to $156,490 CND / $120,376 USDs.
I could have optioned my 2016 GTS to $130K USDs. I think they're comparably priced now, due to the fact Porsche downgraded the Cayman as well (a double-whammy). As noted, Boxster prices should be higher now.
Originally Posted by Archimedes
For a car that's faster, better suspended, better braked, has improved steering response, is more fuel efficient and has an all new PCM/NAV? You don't think Porsche prices should at least track inflation?
You forgot to deduct the engine downgrade. To each his own, but I'll never buy a 4-cyl sports car, no matter how fast.
I could have optioned my 2016 GTS to $130K USDs. I think they're comparably priced now, due to the fact Porsche downgraded the Cayman as well (a double-whammy). As noted, Boxster prices should be higher now.
You forgot to deduct the engine downgrade. To each his own, but I'll never buy a 4-cyl sports car, no matter how fast.
I didn't say it was a better engine, I said it was a faster car. Which it is. And if Porsche's Ring time claims are to be believed, it is by a lot.
What would be an example of a "nonsense argument?" I suppose you could argue that the base (non-SPASM) suspension has been improved in some respects, and bigger brakes are always better (at least until you need to pay for new rotors.) But I don't see much more room to quibble.
The idea of jacking up the price at the same time you move the car downmarket is one of those "That's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for them" moments. It's the sort of thing you might get away with in the middle of a worldwide economic boom, in a market where you have no competition.
But the nonsense in your argument is that you're replacing tangible facts with your opinions and then drawing conclusions based on your own opinions. The FACTS are that the car is faster, has a better suspension, has better brakes, has improved steering (if you haven't driven one of the Porsches with the new steering feel, you have no idea), has a much improved PCM/NAV and, at least in easy driving, is more fuel efficient. Those are facts that you discounted based on your opinions. Just like your statement above about 'moving the car down market'. How is offering a higher performing car in almost every way moving the car down market other than in your biased opinion regarding 4 vs. 6 cylinder? That's your opinion, not a fact. My opinion is us 981 owners should get used to looking at the taillights of 718s.
When I was deciding what to buy, I drove both an F-type V6 380HP with 6MT. It felt like a hot rod - very fast, screaming loud, but IMO, didn't have the fit/finish/sophistication that the 981S had. Now with the new 718 with a turbo four, and a $5K increase in base price, if I was in the market for a 2 seat sports car again, I think I would more seriously consider the Jaguar, for about the same money.
My buddy has one of these and I think it's god awful. Laggy, raspy, bloated. Cool looking but not a sports car by any stretch IMO. If I were spending that money on that type of car, I'd buy an RS5 before I'd buy the Jag.
Just like your statement above about 'moving the car down market'. How is offering a higher performing car in almost every way moving the car down market other than in your biased opinion regarding 4 vs. 6 cylinder? That's your opinion, not a fact.
Hey, don't shoot the messenger. Or if you insist, shoot this messenger:
My opinion is us 981 owners should get used to looking at the taillights of 718s.
(Shrug) Not being a big track guy or street racer, I'm accustomed to looking at the taillights of a great many cars. If I have one cardinal rule in life, it's "Never make it difficult for anyone who's faster to pass me." Why should I get the ticket?
That said, it would be nice if said rear end were a bit more pleasant to look at.
Hey, don't shoot the messenger. Or if you insist, shoot this messenger:
(Shrug) Not being a big track guy or street racer, I'm accustomed to looking at the taillights of a great many cars. If I have one cardinal rule in life, it's "Never make it difficult for anyone who's faster to pass me." Why should I get the ticket?
That said, it would be nice if said rear end were a bit more pleasant to look at.
Agreed about the rear. It is quite ugly.
The 718 is a step forward in some senses and a step backwards in others. That said I would not say no if my wife wanted to have a 718 in addition to our Spyder. I just specced one out the way I think she would want it and it came out to 88k. I don't think it's a bad price at all.
That said, it would be nice if said rear end were a bit more pleasant to look at.
On that we can agree. Originally, I was much more favorably disposed to the styling changes on the 718 than the 991.2. But the more I see them in the flesh, the more that's flipping in my mind. Could change once I see a Cayman in the flesh, but the 718 Boxster isn't doing it for me, front or back.
i think Porsche will see the market speak loudly with the 718 cars.. their somewhat machiavellian marketing constraints have ruined a car at the price point when compared to competitors. No way I can look at an $80k+ 4 cylinder boxster with options when there is so much with 6 or 8 cylinder engines. a lotus evora becomes more attractive now from a purity standpoint, a Jag F-type or a vette z06 from a sound/character standpoint, a Z4 and everything else with a 6 or an 8 now enter the playing field.. because even if the 718 is dynamically better, nobody buys an $80k 4 cylinder. Also, it's butt-***-ugly.. there, I said it.
I'm going to say it. When the 991/981 came out I remember folks saying that these are no longer Porsche's with electric steering. How could they do this I will never buy a Porsche with electric steering, no one will. Don't sell your 987/997 as this is the last true Porsche and the value will go up since no one will buy the new car.
Lets take the wayback machine to 1999 now. Porsche just released a Porsche that is water cooled with ugly headlights. No one will buy a water cooled Porsche with ugly headlights. It's the end of Porsche. Didn't sales go up?
This happens with every new model 964,968,996,986, Cayenne I could go on.
OK now the flaming can start.
I'm going to say it. When the 991/981 came out I remember folks saying that these are no longer Porsche's with electric steering. How could they do this I will never buy a Porsche with electric steering, no one will. Don't sell your 987/997 as this is the last true Porsche and the value will go up since no one will buy the new car.
Lets take the wayback machine to 1999 now. Porsche just released a Porsche that is water cooled with ugly headlights. No one will buy a water cooled Porsche with ugly headlights. It's the end of Porsche. Didn't sales go up?
This happens with every new model 964,968,996,986, Cayenne I could go on.
OK now the flaming can start.
The reviewers were facing a complex task (to use the apparent parlance of our times): to find a single bad thing to say about the 981 and 991 cars, lest they come across to their readers as sellouts or Pollyannas.
The move to electric steering was about all they could come up with. That criticism was weak sauce in 2012/2013, and it's weak sauce now. Lopping 2 cylinders off of the engine is another thing entirely.
And funny you mention the 968. There was some recent discussion on another forum about that, just this afternoon.
09-06-2016, 12:52 AM
but now I am off to spec a 718. Let's see how I get on.
. I think they're comparably priced now, due to the fact Porsche downgraded the Cayman as well (a double-whammy). As noted, Boxster prices should be higher now.
. To each his own, but I'll never buy a 4-cyl sports car, no matter how fast.
