Need a bit of help on next move for a wheel alignment issue. I've been to two reputable (generalist not race or Porsche specific) independent shops that can't reduce the camber on my rear wheels on my 2022 GTS 4.0. Car has 9700 miles and 1st alignment since delivered from dealership. I wanted the following setup as I daily street and drive hard on curvy twisty Texas back farm roads for fun. I don't track this car.

Front L/R Camber: -1.5 degrees
Front L/R Toe: 0 degrees
Rear L/R Camber -1.7 degrees
Rear L/R Toe .14 degrees

The 1st shop had no issue with front wheels, but could only get to -1.2 camber without throwing toe out of alignment, but noted the right camber plate was maxed out, but left could have gone much further. When he got to the rear wheels the factory right wheel camber alignment was way off at -2.2, left wheel was at -.8 camber. He brought the left out to -1.5 no issue, but the right he could only get it in to -2.2. Photo Attached.

Since my front camber was maxed at -1.2 i decided to go to a 2nd shop and ask for this:

Front L/R Camber: -1.2 degrees
Front L/R Toe: 0 degrees
Rear L/R Camber -1.5 degrees
Rear L/R Toe .12 degrees

The 2nd shop had the same similar result in L/R front and was able to go back and forth between rear wheels to get L/R rear at -1.8 and -1.9. He said he could not get anymore positive as it was throwing the toe way off spec. Before I went to the alignment shops I spent days on the forum reading and my understanding is a lot of people are struggling to push their rear camber out MORE negative and can get up to -2.0 without toe links installed, but no one seems to have issue going LESS negative. Both shops really struggled with the car and were surprised the adjustment margins had such minimal range in either direction. Both shops inspected the LCA's and toe links, bushings and overall suspension and said all were in good order but both also asked if the car had wrecked or had any impacts (it hasn't) as they said the 'sub frame' could be out of alignment. Car handles better overall and holds straight on level road, but too much difference between front and left camber. Final alignment results is in attached pic.

My first question is there an issue with the car or do the shops I chose don't know how to align Porsches? Next question is where do I go next, to Porsche or an independent that knows Porsches, I'm thinking Tracktime Performance in Houston. The advantage of Porsche is if any issue with frame alignment it should be under warranty work. If to an independent, less cost and better selection if I need parts such as shims, plates or links to get this thing right and also less hassle to get an alignment that is outside of Porsche factory specs. Lastly, I know there are guys on this forum that know alignment on these cars as well or better than Porsche techs, so please chime in if you spot anything I'm missing in the info I provided.

Thanks


for all help!
Mike

 

​​​​​​Not to derail the thread, but twisty roads around Houston? I want to believe you.......

I haven't had an alignment done recently, but flat 6 werks in Stafford is pretty good for other work I've had done.

 

Around and connecting Brenham, Navasota and College Station. My favorite high speed road is highway 21 coming from Bryan/College Station to Farm RD 60 connecting to Brenham. It's recently paved no potholes, long straight aways and sweeps with a couple of dips. More around Snook and between Brenham and Navasota. Looking at new ones Northwest of Houston above Dayton.

I'll take a look at Flat 6, thanks!

 

NVM, mods delete please

 

My .02
Buy whats required suspension wise to get a proper alignment with ~.5 offset front to rear i.e. -2F/-1.5R. This is a a semi-aggressive street alignment, which will transform the car.
The factory alignment specs you're chasing retains the understeer built in from the factory, which is not ideal.

Once you have purchased or installed said parts... I believe front LCAs on a GTS. Find an Indy Shop that deals with Porsche on a regular, hand them your desired specs, and drive away happy.

 

Indy Porsche-only shop I've used a number of times, including alignment. Off Washington Ave.
https://www.einarsgarage.com/

 

Hey, @BoxKing , thanks for the input. The camber plates are usually the limiting factor in the GTS/GT4 to get more camber. Tarret offset plates seem to be the favorite. My buddy who street/tracks has a similar alignment to what you're suggesting on his GT4 is running -2.1 Front and -1.8 Rear and while I appreciate the handling characteristics of correcting the understeer, it's way too much for my driving style and skill level. Most of the setups I've seen on Renn and the couple I've driven have -1.2 to -1.5 Front and -1.5 to -1.8 with no more than .3 diff front to rear. The front negative camber increase mitigates the understeer much better than stock spec, but having slightly more in back keeps it more planted and balanced for us less skilled drivers.

Appreciate you input! +1 on the indy Porsche specific shop.

 

Awesome, I'll call them today, I just got work for the day. Thanks!

What do you have your alignment specs set to If I may ask?

 

Noted. But to be fair those roads are just about closer to Austin than Houston.

 

I run F/R Tarett camber plates to hit -3F/-2.5R. I would rather have my old specs 2.2/1.7 if my car was primarily street.
The reason why I suggested adding additional suspension parts is so that you can always dial in your preferred specs, all while not being limited by the stock suspension components; which are more limited on a GTS than GT4.

Alignments arent cheap, so why not drop the ~$500 for front camber plates, DIY install (takes less than an hour), followed by an alignment. Most ppl never give thought to getting a proper alignment (its a Porsche, its perfect as is!). You dont fall into this category, you care, so do it right! At the end of the day you will be happy, and in the case you sell the car, the camber plates generally sell used @ 75% of the cost new, same day - there is a current listing for Front plates (live), and they seem to be spoken for. The way I look at it, the cost of entry to you is ~$150

 

You know you're right! Another member that also races/tracks reached out me last night and we had a long talk. Pretty much the same thing you said, get the parts and do it right. As you said, regardless of the final spec that suits my needs, I will want to have the range to make that happen without trying to fight the OEM parts that weren't meant for those needs, your latest response just increases that conviction for me, thank you. One question for you, as this seems to create quite a bit of debate on the alignment threads. The negative camber past Porsche spec is very needed to correct the understeer, but what are the advantages of having slightly more in front as opposed to slightly more in the rear? I'm further confused as TCP (DSC) Racing suggest for Level 1 (Street/Occasional Track) at Front L/R at -1.8 and Rear L/R at -2.0.

 

Given your location, I can think of only one forum member that you might have spoke with, and if I'm right, he and I also had a lengthy discussion on this very topic
You pose a good question with regards to TPC's suggested specs for Street. I suppose they want to retain some under-steer bias for those who plan to driver there cars 80% street. Inducing under-steer through alignment is a fairly common practice on factory built vehicles these days, one can assume they called for these specs to be somewhat inline with safety first. You will get sharper turn-in response with more negative camber up front, allowing the car to rotate more smoothly. When I say "sharper", I am not referring to the wheel snapping in. Adding camber on a street car for me is all about making the care feel more planted. It was a game changer when I did my first custom alignment after one year of ownership, and I kicked myself for not doing it sooner.

 

"Adding camber on a street car for me is all about making the care feel more planted." Me too, I want the car stable, planted and composed in and out of turns without surprises! Since I've been driving the car with a LOT of understeer for over 2 years, you still recommend going more front than back immediately and I adjust, re-learn my driving style and skill? Or ease into with just a minor difference toward just slightly more negative (.02) difference in back, or what about equal set-up, such as front L/R -2.0 and rear L/R -2.0? Thanks!

 

Thanks again for the reference! I talked to them on the phone, reassuring and really nice people. Rates are good too, I have an appointment on the 27th.

 

Lol, I was going to add to my previous post "these changes are subtle, and its not like you're all of a sudden going to snap-oversteer". I will say this, yes I do feel you should have at the min slightly more up front, then you can tweak from there if need be. Could you all of a sudden find yourself in a ditch after said changes... sure, but thats only bc the car provided said driver more confidence (naturally), in TURN, they pressed the limits before knowing them. But we're talking about street driving, limits should never be known, nor can they as there're too many changing variables on the street that cant be calculated like one could on a track. I think an equal setup as you noted would probably feel better than stock... I dont have any experience attempting this, all I know is my GT4 OEM spec alignment was -1.4 F & R

To wrap it up.. I dont think you'd be disappointing going with say -1.8/1.4... and nothing is written in stone, changes can always be made +/- going forward if you have the camber plates. In a perfect world, the GTS/GT4 would have came with a Camber Select Button.. arrive at track, set track mode on, leave with it on Street, but leave it up to the engineering department at Porsche to focus on destroying the Cayman with an EV instead.