More Power Baby
09-22-2024 | 12:29 AM
#16
AutoX
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 13
Likes: 2
i think it's safe to say 95%, and probably a lot more, would not improve their street driving simply by changing from a high performance all season or summer tire, like the cars come with from the factory, to a different set of high performance all season or summer tire.
Not sure what you're trying to say, because tires have one of the biggest impacts on performance, period. It may be true that most people never push their cars on public streets, but if anyone would, it could be a Porsche driver. If one actually cares about performance, then one picks the tire that is appropriate for the conditions and usage. If one drives a Porsche for the nameplate or as a congested city daily driver, then fine, all season tires are ideal. Also ideal would be a Toyota appliance.
09-22-2024 | 12:39 AM
#17
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,836
Likes: 610
Not to prolong the quibbling here, but if the original poster was a "proficient track day driver", perhaps:
1. He would have said so
2. He would have been familiar with all the performance options that any experienced track driver would know
3. He would have a profile listing his experience
4. He would not have purchased the base model
5. He would have posed a clear question citing that track performance would be the actual goal of the tuning, instead of just generally hoping for more pep.
Roule is correct. I would also recommend that "peppiness" starts with driver training. The Cayman has always been a light handling-focused car, not a ¼ mile sprint car. This car is the one to choose when you want a vehicle that responds to perfectly executed cornering, braking, transitions, and so forth. If instead the intent is to race stoplight to stoplight, well then most modern pony cars can dust a Cayman with ease, no matter how much tuning cash you want to burn.
~~~~~~~
To the OP: APR, Cobb, Flat6, Burger, Equilibrium Tuning, Weistec, Techart, and others have been around long enough to know that they're doing. Turbo cars respond well to tuning to add a bit of both power and torque. Emissions, noise, drivability, fuel economy, fuel choice, and so forth are for you to trade off as you see fit. Cost will start at $1000-1500 but if you want real power, you're going to be in for more mods than just an ECU flash, and you'll need 93+ octane fuel.
For those who don't drive at 10/10ths on the street, Pedal Commander is a cheap way to crank up the gain on the throttle so the car feels peppier off the line, with fewer other powertrain tradeoffs.
You are not going to get >375 horsepower out of a either the 2.0 or 2.5 liter turbo engines without serious investment and many more tradeoffs. The 4.0 engine will give you about 440 horses. If you want a kickass car with usable power everywhere, then I highly recommend looking at Corvettes. (Seriously). A base Corvette is less expensive and will give you 495 horses out of the box or 1064 horses with the ZR-1 model, if power is the most important thing. They are bigger and less nimble than the Caymans, but they do not lack for power.
1. He would have said so
2. He would have been familiar with all the performance options that any experienced track driver would know
3. He would have a profile listing his experience
4. He would not have purchased the base model
5. He would have posed a clear question citing that track performance would be the actual goal of the tuning, instead of just generally hoping for more pep.
Roule is correct. I would also recommend that "peppiness" starts with driver training. The Cayman has always been a light handling-focused car, not a ¼ mile sprint car. This car is the one to choose when you want a vehicle that responds to perfectly executed cornering, braking, transitions, and so forth. If instead the intent is to race stoplight to stoplight, well then most modern pony cars can dust a Cayman with ease, no matter how much tuning cash you want to burn.
~~~~~~~
To the OP: APR, Cobb, Flat6, Burger, Equilibrium Tuning, Weistec, Techart, and others have been around long enough to know that they're doing. Turbo cars respond well to tuning to add a bit of both power and torque. Emissions, noise, drivability, fuel economy, fuel choice, and so forth are for you to trade off as you see fit. Cost will start at $1000-1500 but if you want real power, you're going to be in for more mods than just an ECU flash, and you'll need 93+ octane fuel.
For those who don't drive at 10/10ths on the street, Pedal Commander is a cheap way to crank up the gain on the throttle so the car feels peppier off the line, with fewer other powertrain tradeoffs.
You are not going to get >375 horsepower out of a either the 2.0 or 2.5 liter turbo engines without serious investment and many more tradeoffs. The 4.0 engine will give you about 440 horses. If you want a kickass car with usable power everywhere, then I highly recommend looking at Corvettes. (Seriously). A base Corvette is less expensive and will give you 495 horses out of the box or 1064 horses with the ZR-1 model, if power is the most important thing. They are bigger and less nimble than the Caymans, but they do not lack for power.
2. "Hi, my previous car was Miata. It has nothing in common with a 718 besides being RWD and having 2-seats, so I should know everything about modifying a 718."
3. I have a profile listing my experience because... I feel it's important everyone knows how much track time I have. By the way, how much track experience do you think I have? I don't have anything listed in my profile.
4. I got a used base model for $60k. A used GT4 is $120k, but apparently I must not have any track experience because I don't have an extra $60k laying around.
5. Define tuning: ECU? Exhaust mods? Intake mods? The OP did mention exhaust.
I would also say that your advice of a pedal commander is really off. Maybe for an NA car, but the turbo cars respond so well to tuning, why bother with the pedal commander. Also, the base 2.0 with just a tune on 91 octane is at 350hp. The 2.5L is rated at 350hp or 365hp in the GTS. Those are both well over 375hp with a tune. Set and forget with a stock hardware car, or even some mods, APR is hard to beat for a tune. COBB would come into play for a pro-tune with more serious mods like a turbo upgrade.
Why bother recommending a different car? Might as well recommend a Lucid Sapphire Air. It's "bigger and less nimble than the Caymans, but they do not lack for power".
09-22-2024 | 02:44 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 416
Likes: 308
From: South Florida
1. Why would he have said so? "Hey, I'm looking for some power upgrades. By the way, I have 20 years of auto-x and road course experience. Which has nothing to do with me wanting more power out of this platform".
2. "Hi, my previous car was Miata. It has nothing in common with a 718 besides being RWD and having 2-seats, so I should know everything about modifying a 718."
3. I have a profile listing my experience because... I feel it's important everyone knows how much track time I have. By the way, how much track experience do you think I have? I don't have anything listed in my profile.
4. I got a used base model for $60k. A used GT4 is $120k, but apparently I must not have any track experience because I don't have an extra $60k laying around.
5. Define tuning: ECU? Exhaust mods? Intake mods? The OP did mention exhaust.
I would also say that your advice of a pedal commander is really off. Maybe for an NA car, but the turbo cars respond so well to tuning, why bother with the pedal commander. Also, the base 2.0 with just a tune on 91 octane is at 350hp. The 2.5L is rated at 350hp or 365hp in the GTS. Those are both well over 375hp with a tune. Set and forget with a stock hardware car, or even some mods, APR is hard to beat for a tune. COBB would come into play for a pro-tune with more serious mods like a turbo upgrade.
Why bother recommending a different car? Might as well recommend a Lucid Sapphire Air. It's "bigger and less nimble than the Caymans, but they do not lack for power".
2. "Hi, my previous car was Miata. It has nothing in common with a 718 besides being RWD and having 2-seats, so I should know everything about modifying a 718."
3. I have a profile listing my experience because... I feel it's important everyone knows how much track time I have. By the way, how much track experience do you think I have? I don't have anything listed in my profile.
4. I got a used base model for $60k. A used GT4 is $120k, but apparently I must not have any track experience because I don't have an extra $60k laying around.
5. Define tuning: ECU? Exhaust mods? Intake mods? The OP did mention exhaust.
I would also say that your advice of a pedal commander is really off. Maybe for an NA car, but the turbo cars respond so well to tuning, why bother with the pedal commander. Also, the base 2.0 with just a tune on 91 octane is at 350hp. The 2.5L is rated at 350hp or 365hp in the GTS. Those are both well over 375hp with a tune. Set and forget with a stock hardware car, or even some mods, APR is hard to beat for a tune. COBB would come into play for a pro-tune with more serious mods like a turbo upgrade.
Why bother recommending a different car? Might as well recommend a Lucid Sapphire Air. It's "bigger and less nimble than the Caymans, but they do not lack for power".
This a base 2.0 boxster:
This is a GTS 4.0:
09-22-2024 | 09:03 AM
#19
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,582
Likes: 1,097
From: Bucks County PA
Sorry, I gotta back up Nineball on this. No one is driving 400TW summer tires at the edge of their performance envelope on the street unless they're insane. Anyone with even a modicum of track experience knows this.
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nineball (09-24-2024)
09-23-2024 | 09:12 PM
#20
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Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 393
Likes: 113
From: Normal, IL
Not many driving around on 400tw tires on any of these cars. Why is it people can’t just answer the OP inquiry without the judgment?
09-23-2024 | 11:24 PM
#21
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,582
Likes: 1,097
From: Bucks County PA
Reread the thread.
My point in the subsequent 'judgmental' comment was that the performance envelope of these cars on stock tires is so high that no one can rationally approach it on public roads.
"Spirited driving' types who elicit the occasional squeal from their tires think they're 'driving at the limit.' If you understand slip angles, friction circles, etc. you know that driving at the limit of OEM tires (200 to 400 TW) involves cornering forces and speeds higher than this and foolish on the street.
Even if the 'spirited driver' is the one in a billion budding Verstappen and can produce the perfect 7 degree slip angle on every turn, lots can go wrong. Other drivers aren't involved in their 'race' and can react poorly, a kid or an animal can run in front of the car, etc........
That was my point.
Addendum:
Nineball says it perfectly below: "What moron drives 10/10 on the street?"
To amplify that point - these morons are actually at 4/10 and would cr*p their pants if they were on a track at 10/10.
Last edited by ldamelio; 09-24-2024 at 09:12 AM.
09-24-2024 | 08:59 AM
#22
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 797
Likes: 384
From: Ohio
Looks like a statistic made up on the spot.
Not sure what you're trying to say, because tires have one of the biggest impacts on performance, period. It may be true that most people never push their cars on public streets, but if anyone would, it could be a Porsche driver. If one actually cares about performance, then one picks the tire that is appropriate for the conditions and usage. If one drives a Porsche for the nameplate or as a congested city daily driver, then fine, all season tires are ideal. Also ideal would be a Toyota appliance.
Not sure what you're trying to say, because tires have one of the biggest impacts on performance, period. It may be true that most people never push their cars on public streets, but if anyone would, it could be a Porsche driver. If one actually cares about performance, then one picks the tire that is appropriate for the conditions and usage. If one drives a Porsche for the nameplate or as a congested city daily driver, then fine, all season tires are ideal. Also ideal would be a Toyota appliance.
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ldamelio (09-24-2024)
09-24-2024 | 11:25 AM
#23
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 181
Likes: 216
From: USA
what moron drives 10/10ths on the street?
i said exactly what i am saying - the stock tires on a cayman are more than adequate for street driving and changing them out won't accomplish anything other than wasting money. what would you possibly hope to accomplish - driving down the entrance ramp to the freeway 0.6 second faster? you are the definition of an accident waiting to happen.
i said exactly what i am saying - the stock tires on a cayman are more than adequate for street driving and changing them out won't accomplish anything other than wasting money. what would you possibly hope to accomplish - driving down the entrance ramp to the freeway 0.6 second faster? you are the definition of an accident waiting to happen.
Why am I picturing a Buick salesman saying this? "This Buick is more than adequate for street driving and buying a Porsche won't accomplish anything other than wasting money. What would you possibly hope to accomplish - driving down the entrance ramp to the freeway 0.6 second faster? You are the definition of an accident waiting to happen. Back in my day...."
09-24-2024 | 11:39 AM
#24
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,582
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From: Bucks County PA
Not necessarily. Temperature, wet, less warning before losing grip, etc. There are lots of reasons that stickier tires aren't always better on the street. Warm day, empty canyon roads.....sure but even then no meaningful change in your experience over OEM.
Hell - even for HPDE in advanced run groups, I admit to myself that stickers are a lot of money for a marginal gain. I gained about 2 seconds a lap switching from OEM tires to wide wheels with RE-71RS. It doesn't make the track any more fun and I'm certainly not winning anything.
At least I have the self-awareness to recognize this as an indulgence and not a necessity.
I think our points (Nineball - I'm dragging you in here with me) are that you shouldn't be driving at 10/10 or anything close to it on the street. And most people who think they do are kidding themselves. And I don't think the guy is a Buick fan looking at his avatar.
Anyway, we're way off topic. OP needs a tune and exhaust. All of you '10/10 on the street' warriors have fun. We're very impressed with your advanced driving skills. Let's hope the deer, the trees, your neighbors kids, and the cops are equally impressed.
Hell - even for HPDE in advanced run groups, I admit to myself that stickers are a lot of money for a marginal gain. I gained about 2 seconds a lap switching from OEM tires to wide wheels with RE-71RS. It doesn't make the track any more fun and I'm certainly not winning anything.
At least I have the self-awareness to recognize this as an indulgence and not a necessity.
I think our points (Nineball - I'm dragging you in here with me) are that you shouldn't be driving at 10/10 or anything close to it on the street. And most people who think they do are kidding themselves. And I don't think the guy is a Buick fan looking at his avatar.
Anyway, we're way off topic. OP needs a tune and exhaust. All of you '10/10 on the street' warriors have fun. We're very impressed with your advanced driving skills. Let's hope the deer, the trees, your neighbors kids, and the cops are equally impressed.
Last edited by ldamelio; 09-24-2024 at 11:56 AM.
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nineball (09-24-2024)
09-24-2024 | 12:58 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 797
Likes: 384
From: Ohio
Installing stickier tires makes 10/10ths driving into 9/10's driving. Stickier tires increases one's safety margins.
Why am I picturing a Buick salesman saying this? "This Buick is more than adequate for street driving and buying a Porsche won't accomplish anything other than wasting money. What would you possibly hope to accomplish - driving down the entrance ramp to the freeway 0.6 second faster? You are the definition of an accident waiting to happen. Back in my day...."
Why am I picturing a Buick salesman saying this? "This Buick is more than adequate for street driving and buying a Porsche won't accomplish anything other than wasting money. What would you possibly hope to accomplish - driving down the entrance ramp to the freeway 0.6 second faster? You are the definition of an accident waiting to happen. Back in my day...."
i'll say it again, now with your updated statement.
what moron drives 9/10ths on the street? most likely someone who feels the need to compensate for lack in another area...
09-24-2024 | 03:23 PM
#26
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,468
Likes: 220
On the subject of tires, an ultra high-performance A/S tire, like the excellent Michelin Pilot A/S4, is actually better than the 'stickier' summer 4S tire in almost every condition on the streets. What most folks don't understand is for a summer tire to be at its stickiest, it has to be at operating temperature, and THAT typically happens only at the track. On a cool mountain road, A/S4s are better than summers. I wish my Cayman came with those, but at the first change, will get those tires instead. People forget there are SEVEN categories of all-season tires, so not all A/Ss are your Corolla tires. And yes, those A/S4s have the same rim protection as the stock summer tires, so no difference there. Plus A/S4 tires will last twice as long, be quieter on the highway (badly needed), stronger built to withstand potholes, and actually safe in cool/cold weather. Summer tires are absolute crap below 50F, breaking traction without a warning, which is quite dangerous. And yes, I've experienced that first hand, so it's real. And same thing with motorcycle tires: sport-touring tires are all you need for even peg-scraping lean angles outside a track, and last twice as long as super sport tires, which are only better at a track... assuming you have the pace to actually take advantage of them. Ha ha.
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dg108 (09-24-2024)
09-24-2024 | 03:40 PM
#27
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Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 393
Likes: 113
From: Normal, IL
I hated the Michelin PS4S that came on the OE wheels for my car. They were ok in the dry and flat out sucked in the rain even with 8/32 tread and literally sat on the shelf for two years until I pitched them and put on a set of Contiental Extreme Sport Contact 02's which are my daily and transport tires. They are night and day better than the Michelins. That said, I go through 2 sets of the Super 200's (this year Yok AO52's/last year a set of RE71RS and set of Nankang CRS) and can tell you that anything short of a down pour or sub 40 degree temps, the Yoks are better. Do I drive at 9/10 or 10/10 on the street, not unless I'm in Mexico.