Manual Technique Advice
#1
Manual Technique Advice
I've been driving around for about 3 months now and I feel like my manual driving technique has reached a steady state. One worry that creeps into my head often is whether I am actually driving manual "properly" with this car. On a flat surface I usually just let the clutch out slowly to get the car rolling and switch to throttle once it's fully released. However, for hill starts and traffic, I often find myself riding the clutch pedal a lot and/or stalling. In traffic, if I let the clutch pedal go the car seems to pick up to a speed that is too fast for a traffic crawl so i just let the clutch in/out to move the car. For a hill start, I believe the car holds the brakes for me so as I let the clutch out i give it gas to help it overcome the incline. Sometimes it feels like Im giving it proper amount of gas (where the car sounds like it's revving) but as soon as it tries to engage the clutch (or the brake decides to release) it just stalls. Not sure if I need to be even more gentle was im releasing the clutch there... Lastly, I feel like shifting from 1st to 2nd is pretty hard to do smoothly and quickly. If i'm driving at a very lazy pace then I can shift it smooth but if I am trying to accelerate at pace, it feels like shifting into 2nd from a high rpm will jerk the car as the revs don't seem to fall fast enough. I often hear people say 1st gear is just to get the car going so should I be shifting to 2nd asap then try to hard accelerate?
Semi-related: Is there anyone around Los Angeles who thinks they're a manual master and could sit/watch me go and critique my form?
Semi-related: Is there anyone around Los Angeles who thinks they're a manual master and could sit/watch me go and critique my form?
#2
I've been driving manual 25 years. Started drag racing when I was 18 (nice growing up in a town with a NHRA drag strip) and started auto-x and road courses in college. It takes years and doing many different events to build up the 'feel' for driving stick. And every car/engine/transmission is different. Lots of 90s cars with small engines (Civic, etc), you absolutely have to use throttle before started to slip the clutch or you'd stall. The opposite end is a Dodge Viper where you didn't need throttle at all because the engine had so much torque at idle.
The balance of how much throttle to use and how much clutch slip depends on how fast you're trying to accelerate, how steep the hill, and how much traction is available. Trying for max acceleration and lots of grip available, lots of throttle and not much clutch slip. If you're on ice, lots of clutch slip and little throttle to prevent wheelspin. Car has a lightweight flywheel installed? More revs and more clutch slip. There's no shortcut, just a lot of practice. As for the shift from first to second, there's a relatively large drop in rpms. If you want the shift to be smooth, you have to be patient and let the revs drop before letting the clutch all the way out in the next gear.
People who say to to get to 2nd ASAP must not like accelerating hard. For everyday driving putting around in traffic, sure, move off from a start and shift to second around 2500rpm. But if your goal is to accelerate as quickly as possible, take 1st to redline. I'd revise your start procedure also, ALWAYS give throttle and then let the clutch out. If you don't give it any throttle, many cars will stall period, but you also can't 'adjust' for different conditions where you'd need more throttle to prevent stalling.
I live in the Southbay area. My schedule is a bit hectic but you can hit me up. My area of town is actually pretty good for practicing driving stick as there's not much traffic. More advanced topics: double clutching and heel-toe downshifts.
The balance of how much throttle to use and how much clutch slip depends on how fast you're trying to accelerate, how steep the hill, and how much traction is available. Trying for max acceleration and lots of grip available, lots of throttle and not much clutch slip. If you're on ice, lots of clutch slip and little throttle to prevent wheelspin. Car has a lightweight flywheel installed? More revs and more clutch slip. There's no shortcut, just a lot of practice. As for the shift from first to second, there's a relatively large drop in rpms. If you want the shift to be smooth, you have to be patient and let the revs drop before letting the clutch all the way out in the next gear.
People who say to to get to 2nd ASAP must not like accelerating hard. For everyday driving putting around in traffic, sure, move off from a start and shift to second around 2500rpm. But if your goal is to accelerate as quickly as possible, take 1st to redline. I'd revise your start procedure also, ALWAYS give throttle and then let the clutch out. If you don't give it any throttle, many cars will stall period, but you also can't 'adjust' for different conditions where you'd need more throttle to prevent stalling.
I live in the Southbay area. My schedule is a bit hectic but you can hit me up. My area of town is actually pretty good for practicing driving stick as there's not much traffic. More advanced topics: double clutching and heel-toe downshifts.
Last edited by spdracerut; 06-04-2023 at 08:28 PM.
#3
DomTheBomb, It really it great that your bought a manual and want to learn. Once mastered, you'll see what we're talking about. Every time, I hear that a manual driver had gone automatic, it hits me like hearing that another species is going instinct. When I hear of a newbee, it gives me hope! :-) I've been driving only manuals since I was in my early teens (My Dad let me drive his 3-speed ****** Jeep on dirt roads and I had a dirtbike). I took my GTS in for the 1st service, and got a Macan loaner last week. I haven't been in anything with an automatic in literally years, and haven't ever owned one. My wife is the same way. Neither of us could drive the Macan as smoothly or easily as we do our current cars (992, Spyder, Bronco). We both said, "How does anybody drive these things?"
For many years I've been offering to teach friends and children of friends how to drive manual when they get their licenses. Hopefully someone in your area will be able to give you a lesson.
For many years I've been offering to teach friends and children of friends how to drive manual when they get their licenses. Hopefully someone in your area will be able to give you a lesson.
#4
I've been wondering, is the shift being smooth correlated to the least amount of wear on the clutch? I don't mind sacrificing "smoothness" for speed, especially on track days, if it doesn't destroy my clutch.
#5
Best thing to remember is the only correct position for the clutch pedal is fully engaged. Anything in between is causing wear. Obviously you must let the clutch slip but minimize it as much as possible. Been driving manuals for 60 years and have not had a need to have a clutch replaced even after 250,000 miles. Also, best to not sit at stop lights with the clutch disengaged by holding the pedal to the floor. Better to shift to neutral and let the clutch out. The rest is just muscle memory which takes time. I have found the Porsche clutch to be not the most user friendly which is OK as it teaches better clutch skills.
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worf928 (06-06-2023)
#6
I grew up with muscle cars, and shifting fast, REALLY fast, was key to good 1/4 times. Chirping 2nd or even 3rd was cool and also faster. I was never a believer or true power shifting (no clutch, no lift) nor of a no-lift (off gas) shift. But I was/still am a VERY fast shifter. Fast forward to when I started DE days and road coarse driving and shifting fast like that is BAD! It upsets the weight balance of the car. I had an instructor say "hey, you're not drag racing" when I chirped 3rd in my GT350 on No Name straight at Lime Rock. We both laughed.
I have found that no Porsche likes to be shifted too fast. I have to keep slowing myself down if I want a smooth shift. A good, smooth shift will not be jerky at all. If you were to watch the tach, it should go up in gear, then down while shifting, then up in the next gear. There should be no wiggle of the tach as you let the clutch out in 2nd (on a 1-2 shift for example). You should be letting the clutch out at just the right moment so that the RPM's match the tire speed. If you were doing this right, you actually don't need the clutch at all to shift gears because you are rev-matching. And as I said, I've found that I need to slow down to do this smoothly. If I do it too quickly, when I let the clutch out, the RPM's are too high for the next gear, resulting in the car lurching forward (wait too long and the tach drops to idle and you get a braking-type jerking when clutch is let out).
I always say, if your passenger doesn't know you're shifting, you're doing it perfectly smooth. You won't win any drag races that way, but you won't upset the misses.
I have found that no Porsche likes to be shifted too fast. I have to keep slowing myself down if I want a smooth shift. A good, smooth shift will not be jerky at all. If you were to watch the tach, it should go up in gear, then down while shifting, then up in the next gear. There should be no wiggle of the tach as you let the clutch out in 2nd (on a 1-2 shift for example). You should be letting the clutch out at just the right moment so that the RPM's match the tire speed. If you were doing this right, you actually don't need the clutch at all to shift gears because you are rev-matching. And as I said, I've found that I need to slow down to do this smoothly. If I do it too quickly, when I let the clutch out, the RPM's are too high for the next gear, resulting in the car lurching forward (wait too long and the tach drops to idle and you get a braking-type jerking when clutch is let out).
I always say, if your passenger doesn't know you're shifting, you're doing it perfectly smooth. You won't win any drag races that way, but you won't upset the misses.