ldamelio

Nice project. I don't think most of us think you were trolling. I do think your dealer is collecting deposits and sitting on them or using them for cash flow in an era when they have little new inventory and are struggling. Do you mind naming the dealer? The collective knowledge here is deep and folks will have an idea of their general allocation volume, business practices, etc. It's a small world.

There was a sales agent at Champion Porsche a few years ago who collected millions of dollars on GT3 deposits - he cleverly set up a shell company with a name similar to the dealer so folks wrote checks to him without thinking. Dealer had no idea it was going on until cars started arriving and the fleeced didn't get them. It made the national news.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/27277/...six-month-hunt

This was extreme and I'm not suggesting that this is going on in your case, but I missed the part about 'sizable deposit' in your first post. That and the impossible combo of no purchase history and no ADM GT4RS are worrisome. At a minimum, I suggest you take a few days and poke around the Internet (GT4 forum above and 991/992 GT forums here) and get a full understanding of the market and Porsche ordering/manufacturing sequence. Armed with knowledge, go and politely ask the obvious questions we've raised.

Any chance you're in Canada? I think ADM is not permitted there, so your dealer may indeed 'sell at MSRP.' Still highly unlikely to get one as they will go to the whales. And they make their pseudo-ADM in other ways with poor trade in values, add-ons like overpriced fabric/paint protection, mandatory purchase of Porsche watch, etc.

FastCars007

Thanks it's almost complete. Paint and body took quite a while.

The dealer is Porsche Wilmington NC. They do have 4.9 on Google reviews. Very small town and word travels fast if a company is scamming people. Huge problem with the swimming pool and boating markets here. Makes sense on the needing cash flow. They also have the BMW dealership right next door. If that makes a difference. I believe they were just bought by Porsche of Charlotte or Raleigh NC recently.

I'll start doing some more investigating on this for sure. Thanks for the heads up.

ldamelio

If they were just bought by another dealer, it may be true that they have a 'sell at MSRP' policy. A small dealer in my area sells at MSRP, but the one or two GT cars they get a year go to VIPs. You may just have run into a newer salesperson who doesn't know that the RS cars are reserved for whales.

A couple of years ago, I walked into a jeweler with no purchase history hoping to get on a list for certain watch that had at least a six month wait - analogous to walking in to buy a 911 GTS today - tough, but wait your turn and pay up and it can happen. The salesperson was new and I walked out with it ten minutes later at MSRP. Two days later she called and asked me if I wanted to buy another new watch at MSRP - this one was unobtanium grail (like buying a GT3/4 RS at MSRP today) that was selling used for 250% MSRP and was reserved for customers with $250k annual jewelry spend (gulp!). I ran over and threw my card at her as fast as I could. The manager was pretty upset with her when he found out. We wound up buying a modest amount of other stuff from her but she didn't last. I helped her find a new job in health care patient experience.

On another tangent, don't trust Google reviews as a sole thing. SEO (Search Engine Optimization) and editing/removal/planted reviews are a huge thing. I'm in the process of building a new home. The actual construction is pretty solid, but we've hit a snag and it turns out that the builder and his partner are not who/what I thought despite my research. I never would have known from any of the online reviews (many, all five star). When I got an attorney involved, he was able to search some proprietary legal databases and find issues that the general public (me) could never find.

Again, not trying to worry you unnecessarily, but knowledge is power. Check in with them and get more details.

FastCars007

That makes sense. From my connections in the car community locally, it's more of a tuner crowd or Muscle car new/classic. Very very few exotic performance cars. In fact I've never seen a GT Porsche in the 7 years I've been here. Not like when I was in Chicago, they are more common at track days and car shows. However we do have a lot of "whales" here. Most are older, or are into the high dollar boating scene.

I agree on the Google reviews. I usually click on the profile of the review and se what other reviews they are posting, ie local restaurants and local small businesses for example. This usually but not always helps to check the legitimacy of the reviews.

so heres a question: Sales guy mentioned first right of refusal if I ever sold the car as part of the MSRP purchase agreement. Has anyone ever heard of this?

ldamelio

Right of first refusal is very common. Here's how it works:

Customer gets rare car at MSRP, drives it very little if at all. Very quickly customer trades the car back to them, often at more than MSRP so customer makes a quick profit. Dealer then sells the car as CPO with a huge mark up. In the current GT3 market, whales get cars at MSRP, sell them back to dealer, pocket say $25k profit. Dealer then sells 'used' car for $50 - 100 over and can still say that they sell new cars at MSRP. Win-win for both customer and dealer.

The catch - you have to be a very special customer to get this - the kind of guy who spends millions at the dealership over time and maybe gets all his service there. The dealer has made a big profit on the previous purchases and trades of Cayennes/Macans/Pannys/non GT sports cars. This is why I don't think (respectfully) you're likely to get a car as a first time walk-in.

The dealers want right of refusal so you don't flip the car to someone else. If you got an MSRP GT4RS tomorrow, you could easily make an instant $75-100k private sale. (I'll take it for 50 over - please order Weissach package in Arctic grey!)

My understanding is that right of first refusal is difficult to codify legally, so it's usually a handshake understanding. People who get a GT allocation and then flip to another dealer or private party get blacklisted and never get another allocation. Dealers and PCNA track VINs and know what happens to cars.

Many dealers only sell to locals to establish a relationship and hopefully get the service work. There are some who appreciate true enthusiasts and that can help you get an allocation, but probably not for an RS. I was able to get a GT4 allocation at MSRP last year with only one prior purchase (2018 Cayman S) but they knew I was local, active in PCA, a track junkie, non-flipper, got my service and tires there, purchased Audis and leased VWs for the kids from their sister dealership and got to know the staff at Cars and Coffees and PCA events. I wound up not taking it for other reasons, but they were pretty clear on why I was able to get it. My modest relationship with them isn't nearly in the league for a GT3 or 4RS allocation.

FastCars007

So maybe, just maybe the fact that im a local, have a growing franchise company and my sales guy and I are from the same area in Chicago could have prompted him to make me the deal they did in hopes of future sales. My business partner and I both want gt3's if business keeps going as it is.

Or...it's all a bag of lies and I'm being strung along. In that case it would be bad for business in a small town to develop that kind of reputation. I guess i need to play it by ear a bit and see how it goes.

ICNU

Beautiful 69 restomod! I cant really answer your questions regarding what you dealer told you. Its just that what they are saying doesnt match up to what we know to be reality for this car. It will be very interesting to see how this actually plays out, so please keep us updated!

Your large deposit is a little worrisome as others have stated, as you dont even have an allotment yet so getting on a "list" for a car at your point can be done for nothing in most cases, to maybe only 2-3K refundable deposit. Did they dictate this large deposit? As stated, they are just sitting on your money for no reason at all at this point since you dont have any official commision, and anyone can walk in and ask to be placed on that same list

The other thing I find odd is you said this is a dealer in a small town. Im familiar with the little Wilmington beach community area myself, and you said they have already delivered 2 cars and have another one coming. How did this little dealer manage to get 3 allocations for this very rare model with more to come? Most allocations for these special cars go the big, high volume dealers, so smaller dealers are lucky to get even one, yet these guys are getting GT4RS allocations seemingly falling out of heaven? Its all very interesting though!

Good luck!

BoxKing

Currently you’re on a list, with no apparent DEAL, just a sizable deposit (please elaborate $$$). You need a Commission number/V200 status, along with placing a typical 5-10% deposit based on the MSRP from your build spec supplied at the time of your SA submitting the order in the system.

With regards to being local, a so called “walk-in”, being in the car industry, and finding some common ground with your SA… I’d say you’ve increased your odds ever so slightly, so dont lose all hope on the GT4RS, but I’d aim a little smaller and target a GT4/GTS allocation to get some skin in the game instead.

I’m pulling for you either way, as I was one of the 2% who walked in off the street with no affiliation to the Porsche brand, and yet here I am with an active build in the works for MY23 GT4 @ MSRP. The dealership that worked with me will have my business for the remainder of my life, unless a unicorn is offered to me by another dealership that they can’t match - and if I can afford it!

All the info you’re getting back from others here is just the cold hard truth, and sometime hard to stomach.
Best of luck!

FastCars007

Well it looks like I need to do some digging. I put $10k down, but I don't want to sit for a year only to have it refunded. I'm going to have a talk with the sales guy on Tuesday and get some straight answers. I found 3 gt4 rs cars for sale. One at MSRP $170k and 2 at $319k. The 2 at $319k where evidently titled and jacked up. The MSRP one is probably a bait listing.

Ill update this with my findings next week. This probably won't play out in my favor from the sounds of it. Either way the information here is very helpful, so thanks to all of you.

TXshaggy

Of course having a good relationship with your SA is beneficial; I stop by and chat with mine whenever I'm on that side of town. Sometimes I even drop off some BT bourbon -- he's hunting down a rare Weller for me.

However, "special" cars are discussed and doled out at the SM/GM level.

Being on a list is just that; a pool of possible clients. How long you're on that list is not a worthy metric either; whether ADM or not someone can slide right in.

It's a very nuanced situation.

Good luck, people do succeed in getting these as evidenced daily on this forum.

ICNU

Another strange Porsche phenomena that can occur is you might see a car like the 170K MSRP car you mentioned in a search that looks like its a car out there for sale, however it may actually be a customer car that has just been delivered into the dealership, and the price shown is just the sticker for that particular piece of inventory that was scanned in. I have no idea why some customer cars will show as available dealer inventory on a search? There is no reason the dealer system shouldn't be able to separate dealer stock vs a customer delivery, but I guess its a nice bait car on their website that may get a few to come in as you stated.

usctrojanGT3

This is exactly how my dealer works, there's no written first right of refusal to buy the car back when I'm done with it BUT there is a mutual understanding that if I want another GT car at MSRP that I'll be trading the GT car that they sold to me for MSRP back. Sorta like....you want a new GT car, you will trade in your used GT car back to them which is very fair in my opinion. I've gotten MSRP or a little above on my GT car trade-ins so they have been very fair to me on the trade-in side. There are dealers out there that value relationships but you do have to have a history of buying from them and selling back cars to them for several years before you move up the ladder to get GT cars at MSRP.

HooosierDaddy

If it were me, I'd be looking to get my 10K back and buy something currently available. No new allocations for all of 2023.

7000 units is the projected build capacity including already produced and future builds world wide, but does not take into account supply chain issues or other glitches we've come to expect now. .

ldamelio

Re the $170 MSRP car you found listed: most dealers put their new dealer spec GT cars on their websites in one of two ways:

1) No price with a 'Call to inquire' note or, as likely in this case:

2) They list MSRP and you find the ADM only when you call or come in.

The $319 is about current market for GT4RS Weissach for random buyer. It's for those with FU money who want instant gratification.

daaa nope

Well, look at it this way: if you DO score this car, walking in off the street with no prior Porsche history AND land it at MSRP.... it would be one for the record books.

Even before all the crazy COVID nonsense... GT and especially newly launched RS cars, it was not entirely uncommon to find ADMs... and for sure, VIPs or longstanding customers with long purchase histories were the given first right of refusal. COVID and all the supply chain blah-blah only made it worse.

Best of luck but I would be willing to make a sizable bet that your $10k deposit was just for a place in line - the line that the dealer will go through if/when they get an allocation assigned to them. Probably quite a few folks ahead of you. And if people are willing to pay 50-100k over MSRP, those same people would probably gladly put 50-100k up as a deposit to secure one at MSRP. I know if my dealer called me and said, "Give me a $50k deposit and I'll lock in a GT4RS order for you at MSRP" I'd be dialing my bank to initiate the wire transfer before I could even respond to the dealer with "ok".