Future of the 718
03-06-2019, 02:36 PM
#106
Racer
Thread Starter
^^^ didn't I read when the 718 was introduced that the reason for 4 cylinders is bc the 6 cylinder turbo could not fit?
True, but who knows they now found a magical way to fit it anyway?
True, but who knows they now found a magical way to fit it anyway?
03-06-2019, 03:14 PM
#107
Burning Brakes
Honestly I also think the 4 cylinder decision had something to do with the next generation electric. The 982 creates a sound bridge from the 981 to the all electric. Great sound -> not so great sound -> no sound. Who will miss the 982's sound when an all electric model arrives??
03-06-2019, 03:49 PM
#108
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What an interesting thread. With the intro of the 992, it became obvious to me that the 911 has moved on. Moved on quite a ways from the air-cooled idiosyncratic sports car that I lusted after in my youth to become a rich guy's GT---rarely driven and never ever tracked. I sill want that lean, mean driven' machine that was the the 911 until the debacle of the 996.
I don't care if Porsche sold a bunch of 996's or if these, along with the Boxster, saved Porsche from bankruptcy. I also don't buy into the revisionist thinking that this is a great car or that this is the 911 to buy. No way.
The 997 saved the day for real 911's. But Porsche couldn't leave well enough alone and kept fixing it until the 992. A fabulous car, by all accounts. But not a 911 as most have perceived the 911. The air-cooled 911 was unique. The 992 911 is not unique. If I am shopping a 992, why not go with an Aston Martin? Or a host of other soulless competitors? Sure, electric, why not? What's the difference? Just add the the letters GT to it. The 911 is the brand's halo but it doesn't really exist anymore. This reminds me of the Nissan TV spot from 2005 or so featuring Barbie and Ken dolls with a model of the 240Z and a great sound track--The KInks "You Really Got Me Now."
Porsche is now an SUV company. I don't see much future for the Boxster/Cayman--especially as entry model cars have never enjoyed much of a shelf-life at Porsche. And sports cars are a whole lot of hassle with little payoff to the manufacturer.
UInless Porsche sees Boxsters/Caymans as the cars to carry the performance mantle shrugged off by the 911. The mid-engine platform has a lot more potential for ultimate performance than the 911 ever did and could become the true Porsches: somewhat affordable (or at least realistically aspirational for the type of buyer who used to get 911's) and cars that people actually want instead of settling for because the 911 is out of reach. I can see hybrid Caymans or Boxsters--or even electric, and "T"s with a 6 and no PCM.
I don't care if Porsche sold a bunch of 996's or if these, along with the Boxster, saved Porsche from bankruptcy. I also don't buy into the revisionist thinking that this is a great car or that this is the 911 to buy. No way.
The 997 saved the day for real 911's. But Porsche couldn't leave well enough alone and kept fixing it until the 992. A fabulous car, by all accounts. But not a 911 as most have perceived the 911. The air-cooled 911 was unique. The 992 911 is not unique. If I am shopping a 992, why not go with an Aston Martin? Or a host of other soulless competitors? Sure, electric, why not? What's the difference? Just add the the letters GT to it. The 911 is the brand's halo but it doesn't really exist anymore. This reminds me of the Nissan TV spot from 2005 or so featuring Barbie and Ken dolls with a model of the 240Z and a great sound track--The KInks "You Really Got Me Now."
Porsche is now an SUV company. I don't see much future for the Boxster/Cayman--especially as entry model cars have never enjoyed much of a shelf-life at Porsche. And sports cars are a whole lot of hassle with little payoff to the manufacturer.
UInless Porsche sees Boxsters/Caymans as the cars to carry the performance mantle shrugged off by the 911. The mid-engine platform has a lot more potential for ultimate performance than the 911 ever did and could become the true Porsches: somewhat affordable (or at least realistically aspirational for the type of buyer who used to get 911's) and cars that people actually want instead of settling for because the 911 is out of reach. I can see hybrid Caymans or Boxsters--or even electric, and "T"s with a 6 and no PCM.
03-06-2019, 03:58 PM
#109
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I tend to think the 4 cylinder was a more natural way to limit the power to not interfere with the 911. The chassis held a 3.8. How big is the 3.0 turbo in comparison? Germans have a knack for figuring things out. I'm sure it can be done. And Porsche could easily reduce the bore and/or stroke and/or turbos to limit power and create an ever smaller package.
It simple isn't possible that Porsches actual engineers couldn't figure out how to put a 3.0 twin-turbo in a 718 where a 3.8 NA fit in the 981. If Marketing said 'do it' it would happen. Period. End of story.
03-06-2019, 05:35 PM
#110
Racer
Thread Starter
Okay, but engine capacity is not directly related to external engine size. 3,4 or 3,8 are the same size, only the 3,8 has bigger holes in it. Not sure how the current 3,0 compares to the older engines externally, besides the add-ons.
03-06-2019, 05:41 PM
#111
Racer
Thread Starter
What an interesting thread. With the intro of the 992, it became obvious to me that the 911 has moved on. Moved on quite a ways from the air-cooled idiosyncratic sports car that I lusted after in my youth to become a rich guy's GT---rarely driven and never ever tracked. I sill want that lean, mean driven' machine that was the the 911 until the debacle of the 996.
I don't care if Porsche sold a bunch of 996's or if these, along with the Boxster, saved Porsche from bankruptcy. I also don't buy into the revisionist thinking that this is a great car or that this is the 911 to buy. No way.
The 997 saved the day for real 911's. But Porsche couldn't leave well enough alone and kept fixing it until the 992. A fabulous car, by all accounts. But not a 911 as most have perceived the 911. The air-cooled 911 was unique. The 992 911 is not unique. If I am shopping a 992, why not go with an Aston Martin? Or a host of other soulless competitors? Sure, electric, why not? What's the difference? Just add the the letters GT to it. The 911 is the brand's halo but it doesn't really exist anymore. This reminds me of the Nissan TV spot from 2005 or so featuring Barbie and Ken dolls with a model of the 240Z and a great sound track--The KInks "You Really Got Me Now."
Porsche is now an SUV company. I don't see much future for the Boxster/Cayman--especially as entry model cars have never enjoyed much of a shelf-life at Porsche. And sports cars are a whole lot of hassle with little payoff to the manufacturer.
UInless Porsche sees Boxsters/Caymans as the cars to carry the performance mantle shrugged off by the 911. The mid-engine platform has a lot more potential for ultimate performance than the 911 ever did and could become the true Porsches: somewhat affordable (or at least realistically aspirational for the type of buyer who used to get 911's) and cars that people actually want instead of settling for because the 911 is out of reach. I can see hybrid Caymans or Boxsters--or even electric, and "T"s with a 6 and no PCM.
I don't care if Porsche sold a bunch of 996's or if these, along with the Boxster, saved Porsche from bankruptcy. I also don't buy into the revisionist thinking that this is a great car or that this is the 911 to buy. No way.
The 997 saved the day for real 911's. But Porsche couldn't leave well enough alone and kept fixing it until the 992. A fabulous car, by all accounts. But not a 911 as most have perceived the 911. The air-cooled 911 was unique. The 992 911 is not unique. If I am shopping a 992, why not go with an Aston Martin? Or a host of other soulless competitors? Sure, electric, why not? What's the difference? Just add the the letters GT to it. The 911 is the brand's halo but it doesn't really exist anymore. This reminds me of the Nissan TV spot from 2005 or so featuring Barbie and Ken dolls with a model of the 240Z and a great sound track--The KInks "You Really Got Me Now."
Porsche is now an SUV company. I don't see much future for the Boxster/Cayman--especially as entry model cars have never enjoyed much of a shelf-life at Porsche. And sports cars are a whole lot of hassle with little payoff to the manufacturer.
UInless Porsche sees Boxsters/Caymans as the cars to carry the performance mantle shrugged off by the 911. The mid-engine platform has a lot more potential for ultimate performance than the 911 ever did and could become the true Porsches: somewhat affordable (or at least realistically aspirational for the type of buyer who used to get 911's) and cars that people actually want instead of settling for because the 911 is out of reach. I can see hybrid Caymans or Boxsters--or even electric, and "T"s with a 6 and no PCM.
There will be no hybrid 718. When 982 is finished, a 100% EV will replace it.
03-06-2019, 08:58 PM
#112
Burning Brakes
Serious question, I had a 991.1 with PDK and the 718 GTS feels every bit as fast, especially at the low end and mid-range (20-60). The 991 would overtake it and move ahead as the speeds went up but I don't feel that the GTS is any slower at usable speeds. I also have a 5 Cylinder RS3. now selling. Even though it is a turbo, it is very fast to 60 - faster than my 991 was. I don't particularly like turbos and hate that I actually get less gas mileage with them than I did with either my 991 or 991. But, I never criticize the quickness.
03-07-2019, 10:09 AM
#113
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Not sure how the current 3,0 compares to the older engines externally, besides the add-ons.
I stand by what I wrote above: if shade-tree engineers can do it on a 928 without an existence proof in a space that’s not big enough to stick your hand in, Porsches engineers can do it to. If Marketing tells them too.
The other side of that argument is that a single Kentucky Hillbilly is better than Porsche’s engineering department.
03-07-2019, 10:22 AM
#114
Of course.
There was a long ‘analysis thread’ somewhere when it came out. IIRC case size of the 9A2 is the same as the 9A1.
I stand by what I wrote above: if shade-tree engineers can do it on a 928 without an existence proof in a space that’s not big enough to stick your hand in, Porsches engineers can do it to. If Marketing tells them too.
The other side of that argument is that a single Kentucky Hillbilly is better than Porsche’s engineering department.
Now that Porsche has sunk a fair amount of money in developing a flat 4, do they now want to incur extra cost to add a turbo flat six, and then hold back the power output to ensure the 911 is not endangered?
Given the 718 is a low volume car and electric is coming, I don't see Porsche "wasting" their development money.
03-07-2019, 10:47 AM
#115
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http://www.kuhnperformance.com/proje...-s4-twin-turbo
Given the 718 is a low volume car and electric is coming, I don't see Porsche "wasting" their development money.
03-07-2019, 10:50 AM
#116
03-11-2019, 10:34 AM
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This answers the question?
This article makes it sound like if they go electric, they wont be called caymans. Now until 2023 could be the end of the line.
https://www.motor1.com/news/308845/porsche-boxster-electric-decision-2019/
https://www.motor1.com/news/308845/porsche-boxster-electric-decision-2019/
03-11-2019, 05:33 PM
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03-11-2019, 06:31 PM
#120
2020 Boxster Spyder
There are several reasons why the Targa corners well. Rear axle steering and PDCC, as well as wider tires. As for 982 Spyder/Cayman future sales, I already stated being all manual gearboxed would limit desire, and they aren't as new conceptually as the 981 versions were. Therefore in Porsche terms a bit stale. Some will jump all over them. But both the current GT4 and Spyder were seeing demand drop well before the hype of the 718 GT4 and Spyder started up. For me it's been there done that. Of course you'll get some upgrades and there was definitely room for improvement with the 981 versions. But the concept has aged. PDK would open up the market. Still Porsche will purposefully limit production as they typically do with special models.
There are a few problems with Porsche and their cars in general. 1. Turbo power is available in spades, Porsche isn't leading the charge in turbo sports cars. 2. Fewer buyers are willing to give up technology in exchange for driver engagement. I know I want heated and ventilated seats in a car regardless if it my daily driver or toy car, but how many people will give up their technology for smiles per miles? 3. Brand dilution, too many people are seeing a Porsche badges as meaning you over paid for an Audi or VW. 4. Pricing. If Porsche isn't offering something the competition isn't and the badge is diluted then why pay a premium? 718 and Panamera are now suffering from depreciation just like any other car does.
As for the 718 and mid-engine debate... if there is no engine then there is no mid-"engine" car. The dynamics of a EV car can be whatever Porsche wants it to be by simply putting the battery weight where-ever they want it. The reason for buying a 2-seat sports car will not change; smaller, lighter weight, driving focused. No one buys a Boxster or Cayman to win a race, it's all about emotional connection to the driving experience.
Last edited by PLAY_HRD; 03-12-2019 at 10:24 AM.