bobbigham

Reproduction with VW engine is simple, easy to get parts for, low cost of maintenance, however, car will depreciate while the 356 would cost more and may have potentially expensive repairs, but should appreciate.

Performance will probably be better with a hopped up VW engine as well.

If you want a speedster or roadster and want to drive it then reproduction is much less expensive for a convertible 356 model to scoot around in, but if a coupe is okay I would try to look for the real thing.

If money is not an object, buy a real 356.

greenr

I ended up passing on the car. I wasn't really sure about it and figured if in the end I really want one I can alaways go and order it. Upon further research, however, I think that Intermeccanica (or some other non-pan based car) is the way to go.

So the hunt for a car continues...who knows what I will end up buying to make my commute to work a little more enjoyable!

Tracym

who makes the best replica? Qualtiy wise? Also, what does an nice replica go for?

camchain

How much will a very nice replica go for? If you can make it go away at all assume it will bring 20-25% of the build cost. Don't do it... save your $ and get a real car.

Baggerdude

I've wondered ... and posted ... about replica 356 P-cars before as well. I read this forum quite often, but don't post much cuz I don't have a 356. Real or replica.

But, I'm still looking at both kinds of cars. And, there are pluses and minuses on both sides of these fine cars.

Since I last posted regarding "Real or replica", I've spent a lot of time looking at REAL 356 cars. The North East (something or other) was held last summer here in CT. I went there to look at all the kewl bathtubs and other early 60's cars. It was quite nice. Lots of REAL cars in various conditions. Some were terrific (and expensive) others were drivers (less expensive ... relatively so).

But, my concerns with REAL cars are .... they are getting expensive as well. Recently, on eBay several 356 coupes sold for $33,000 to $37,000 .... and much more. Now, these (appeared) to be very nice examples of the car. The best seemed fully refurbished and restored. But, the lessor examples were pretty much 'drivers'. And, the paint, interior, chrome showed signs of this. Several thousands of dollars needed to make it 'fine'. (?)

Spending that much on a refurb'd and refinished car is OK with me, but we are approaching the limits of a 'driver'. Plus, the car is original with all the drum brakes, 6 volt electrics, dim bulbs, low horse powered cars with new rubber seals and such. That's kewl if one does not wanna drive it to work and have it not work when one leaves work. Bummer.

I'm still leaning toward a replica. Aka: recreation?

Yes, I'd make it as 'period' as I could. But, I like the fact that I can get disc brakes, tubular frame, 130-260 hp, modern electrics and fuel delivery in a water cooled car, 3 point seat belts, bigger rubber, roll up windows, better visibility, complete customization to one's wishes, good heat (and AC, if one wants), better reliability (?) and easier to service (by a shop ... I guess), too.

But, it would not be REAL. It would be a terrific stab at recreating the original car with modern stuff. Retro with today's stuff. Yeah, it will decline in worth ... like all the cars I buy/lease. But, I would not worry as much about driving it on a winter's day when the roads were clear, altho still some salt residue on the roads. The REAL car ... ? Well, I'd leave in the garage on a battery tender as I do the 993. (sigh..) I'd be a 6 month driver on weekends. Wonder what the replica would be?

I'd really like a car that I can drive when ever I like .... weather be damned. Pretty much park it for the day and not worry too much. And, worry less about the appreciation that I'd be eschewing as well.

Maybe I'm an idiot for thinking about a nearly $35-$40K replica roadster car. Who knows.

Baggerdude

LGCs ....

I understand your point of view.

That said, I have a 1996 C4S that is a very fresh car with about 30k on the clock. This is our weekend driver to lunch in NH, RI, VT and such. It's a riot to drive. I love it and plan to keep it for a long time.

And, when my M5 is given back (lease car) next week, it will be replaced by a new 997 C4S as my daily driver in mid/late March.

But, I've always wanted a 356. But having done a refurb on a few street rods, a couple mid 50s stockers and some 'redos' on a motorcycle or two .... well, I'm kinda not interested in pouring money down that rat hole again. I'm finished with old stuff that needs constant work and such. I'm not much of a wrench.

I figure a replica can be the best of both worlds. And, $40k would be the top end of such a build. I think $33k is more like it. But, hey .... I'm just a newbie here. And, I'm not buying the car tomorrow, eh.

bobbigham

Keep in mind that a coupe is not a speedster or roadster, dropping the top is a major part of the fun, the 356 Speedtser/ Roadster look with a replica, is more affordable and depending on the builder, maybe more dependable.
I have a 993 cab, so I might consider a "real" 356 coupe, but only if it has been restored to a very high quality, and I bet it runs $35k to $45k for a top notch one, but the top still doesn't drop.

ked

Bagger,
I'm the last person that would ever presume to tell anyone what they ought to do... so I'll just tell you how I would approach your situation if I faced the same... For context, I drove my first 356 in '68, now have 2; a highly sought-after open car in need of a proper ($$$) restoration and a cheap driver. I have no bias against kit cars, per se, and don't want to offend anyone (intentionally).

The prerequisite conceptual breakthrough is to NOT compare a 356 to a kit / replica / re-creation. They are not comparable, not categorically similar. The fact a kit resembles (in appearance or even in experiential feedback) a real 356, or that some financial calculation may equate them only serves to color ones reasoning. Once the distinction is embraced, one can proceed down either (or both!) paths more sensibly.

Further, one must accept that there is NO old (let's say, 1/3 of a century) sports car, even completely restored, that doesn't demand special attention. It is a matter of what you can tolerate: how much work you do yourself, how much you can afford to have performed by a shop, finding a competent shop, how you deal with failures in use, etc. Two famous phrases occur to me; "You can't go home again." & "There's no such thing as a free lunch."

So, if I wanted "that old time religion", could deal with the drawbacks, & I had some sane limits on investment, I would seek a driver 356 and be willing to sacrifice appearance for mechanical reliability + authentic driving experience in order to keep cost under control. This is not an easy route if one is influenced by the perceptions of others. If I had to have a fine looking old car too, that might mean no 356. Alternatively, an Alfa GTV or BMW 2002 or similar (maybe even a British car, but let's try to be sensible, eh?)...

If I wanted a fun hobby car, a new kit is worth considering, but it couldn't be a 356 - I've had the good fortune (or misfortune, perhaps) to have long-standing experience of real 356s (& some real nice ones, at that), plus the speedster kits are too common. I might check out a 550 Spyder, Westfield 11, maybe even a GT40 (getting a bit pricey). Sure, if I were young & inexperienced the Inter Roadster would be on the menu (not really a kit, not cheap, a "complete car" in utilitarian terms). As you alluded about rat-hole experience, a kit can deliver as much frustration as an old sports car... just gets there much differently.

So, if you are serious about a 356 kit of some kind, whatever you do, don't expose yourself to a really nice, really real 356. All my highly subjective pov, of course - have fun hunting & best of luck!

Baggerdude

I sorry if it seems that I hijacked this thread .... it was not my intention. But, we were speaking about 'real vs replica' cars and tho't I'd toss my .02 into the ring.

I appreciate everyone's opinion. Many speak from experience and that is always helpful.

I have not driven either a real or replica 356. I'm sure the REAL versions pretty much all drive the same if well sorted. The replicas are a duck of a different feather. Some are based on VW pans with VW running gear, suspension, steering and brakes. Others have custom tubular frames offering considerable stiffness, hi performance VW motors with over 165 ponies, or water cooled Honda/Subi/VW motors with 200+ horses, 4 wheel disc brakes, modern suspensions and rack/pinion steering gear. And, in roadster trim .... roll up windows! And, they are new. Not without niggly problems, I'm sure, but NEW!

My first Porsche was a '67 rusty driver. It was real. A real pain. But, that whole ownership/driving experience would pale in comparison to my 993. And, driving the 997 is much more satisfying to me than my 993. Evolution? Maybe I'm just getting older. The 993 is near showroom and keeping it that way (with the 4-5k miles I put on it yearly) is affordable and pretty EZ. It was not cheap to purchase a car of this caliber, but it is a fine example of the last air cooled genre.

I plan to drive both real and replica cars over the coming year. I have been in contact with all the serious replica makers who make 'turnkey cars'. These, BTW, are NOT kits! But, fully sorted out custom cars with fiberglass 356 bodies. Anyway, I've been dreaming about this decision for some time .... years. I would have pulled the trigger if I had more room in the garages and more time to enjoy the driving. We shall see how this quest turns out. Real or replica?

larisa

Since this site is for "real" Porsche cars, I usually try to stay away from posting here, even though I DO have a "real" Porsche and a 356 replica.
Of course,for the price of my replica I could have bought a real 356 coupe(but I want a convertible),so the money wasn't the issue. Now,I can not buy a real speedster for the price of a coupe,so what do I do? I buy a replica. Everybody say "get the real thing",well the "real" speedster is $100,000+ car,and not everybody has that kind of money,plus do you really want to spend that kind of money for a 60hp car? For that much money,a GT3 sounds much better to me. My replica is my hobby,I DO work on it ,and it will run circles around the orginal any time. And about driving experience,I have talked to many past (real) speedster owners, and they said the the real vs replica are not much different (swing axle replicas).

larisa

LGCs

I have a 1915cc vw engine that has around 120hp.

I am not here to start any problems,and by no means trying to pass my car as a better car than a real one. I am just trying to give my honest opinion on the subject. Sorry if I was roude on my previous post, and sorry for hijacking this thread.

ked

I view "turnkey" replicas as kits built by a business that gets paid to do so, and have built-up a number of the same kits. usually these can be bought in unassembled or partially assembled form too. what am I missing?
LGC, I think your approach is absolutely the way to go - you've got a real Porsche and it is an open car - plus (if you bought it used) it isn't too bad an investment - as depreciating assets go.
Larisa, money DOES seem to be an issue, or you would've / could've bought a real, open 356. and if you had the money, why couldn't you enjoy driving it, as many wealthy enthusiasts do with their cars? does your point referencing "60hp" and "runs circles around it anytime" reveal insecurity about your choice of a fake open 356? It wouldn't surprise me that there is a multi-million $ Bugatti somewhere that your kit also runs circles around... why is this important? that some have owned a speedster & can't distinguish its handling from a VW swing-axle kit doesn't suprise me - there is no restriction (other than $) on who can own a speedster - just observe the gene pool at the B-J auction! ... for many, the 356 is just a hot-rodded old VW ... just leave it at that. cheers!

larisa

Ked
Insecurity? Not at all my friend.As I explained on my previous post, I am NOT trying to pass it as original. Before I got my 1915cc, I had a "stock" VW engine with 60hp and it was VERY VERY hard to keep up with traffic. Every single car was about to run OVER ME. Last time I talked to an "original" owner,I asked him if he takes any long runs in his car, and his response was " I always drive mine on neighbohood roads and never on the hwy,too slow".That is why I said my replica will run circles around an original. About my money situation,having 2 vacation homes in Europe,does't mean I will spend my money on a real speedster here in the states, BUT you know my finances better than I do.
Cheers

ked

larisa,
I was making no comment on your wealth, just your own statements, which I interpreted as contradictory. "so the money wasn't the issue" & "...do you really want to spend that kind of money for a 60hp car? For that much money,a GT3 sounds much better to me." (me too, btw) If I misunderstood &/or misinterpreted your line of reasoning, my apologies (in fact, my apologies if I offended anybody about about anything).

Here's another data point for you. When I picked up my '65 SC (upon purchase, sight unseen), I drove it from Salt Lake City to Hsv, AL in 2 days - that's about 1800 mi. No problems. I was even able to deal w/ the ignominy of being passed by SUVs (them doing over 100mph, but the SC was SO happy at 80-90). I paid well under $20K for it. Granted, it is immensely powerful @ 95hp, but I have driven quite a few 60hp 356s & the healthy ones gave me no pause as far as perf on the hwy & in traffic goes (well, no more pause than driving ANYTHING in traffic). Frankly, I'm not sure what to think about 356 owners who aren't able to take their car out on the local autobahn - pity? (hmmm, does he want to sell it?). different strokes, as ever... all the best!

larisa

Ked

Apologies accepted no problem. Same goes for me.
My speedster replica is my hobby,and not my investment,and that's how I see it. As a hobby,I am able to do some extra upgrades without having to sacrifice the value of the car. Actually ,with bigger engine,better brakes,it helps the resale value in the replica world.
About the speedster owner that does not drive his car on the hwy, I saw him once at a car show,and we talked about his car.That's it. His car was in mint condition all around.
Sorry for hijacking this thread again.