Now I've done it...
09-03-2002, 09:53 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Now I've done it...
Coming home down the A6 last Sunday in my 60 PS 356 we were having fun. Both the car and myself were happy at about 140 to 150 Km/hr when...
quite suddenly the engine got a bit rough and the temperature went up very fast.
I coasted into the next parking area and switched off. The temperature needle went into the red.
I got the car towed home and checked the fan belt is still connected and the fan is still on the back of the generator - no problems. Oil level is OK too.
Now I'm wondering what could cause the temperature to go up so fast and have I cooked the engine? I'll probably try to start it this evening but, having checked the obvious, are there any suggestions as to what I should check next. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
quite suddenly the engine got a bit rough and the temperature went up very fast.
I coasted into the next parking area and switched off. The temperature needle went into the red.
I got the car towed home and checked the fan belt is still connected and the fan is still on the back of the generator - no problems. Oil level is OK too.
Now I'm wondering what could cause the temperature to go up so fast and have I cooked the engine? I'll probably try to start it this evening but, having checked the obvious, are there any suggestions as to what I should check next. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
09-04-2002, 09:39 AM
#2
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Hello
The 60 HP versions should run constant WOT without any signs from overheating.
The 75 and especially the 90/95 HP engines can run hot so you have to back off from WOT if the oil temperature pegs to the right.
Now today modern oils are much better then the oils from the 60īs and you have more reserves in case from overheating.
After you shut off the engine the fan didnīt worked and so the case and the oil had to pull all the heat and transport it evenely.
What you expirienced is maybe a ignition problem or relatet to the carburators/fuel delivery.
The overheatet oil is the follow up from that.
It also can be that the last rebuilder worked poor on the heads and your valves where sticking in the guide after the engine got hot, or he didnīt ccīd the combustion chambers so you maybe have a hot spot, the valve seats could flow or fall out,,,,
Letīs say that can be a long list.
First check your ignition timing and look at your sparkplugs ( Are they correct and the tips are all in the same distance and none has a slight ditch ), fuel system and the valvelash.
After that check if your temperaturesensor works correct so you are alarmed in time.
The engine should still start but if it backfires a valve is sticking or shoot.
As you are in germany I would recomend to find a good shop who knows 356/912 to nail the problem and knows good machine shops on fixing problems.
Grüsse
The 60 HP versions should run constant WOT without any signs from overheating.
The 75 and especially the 90/95 HP engines can run hot so you have to back off from WOT if the oil temperature pegs to the right.
Now today modern oils are much better then the oils from the 60īs and you have more reserves in case from overheating.
After you shut off the engine the fan didnīt worked and so the case and the oil had to pull all the heat and transport it evenely.
What you expirienced is maybe a ignition problem or relatet to the carburators/fuel delivery.
The overheatet oil is the follow up from that.
It also can be that the last rebuilder worked poor on the heads and your valves where sticking in the guide after the engine got hot, or he didnīt ccīd the combustion chambers so you maybe have a hot spot, the valve seats could flow or fall out,,,,
Letīs say that can be a long list.
First check your ignition timing and look at your sparkplugs ( Are they correct and the tips are all in the same distance and none has a slight ditch ), fuel system and the valvelash.
After that check if your temperaturesensor works correct so you are alarmed in time.
The engine should still start but if it backfires a valve is sticking or shoot.
As you are in germany I would recomend to find a good shop who knows 356/912 to nail the problem and knows good machine shops on fixing problems.
Grüsse
09-04-2002, 09:59 AM
#3
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Hello
Maybe you need to talk to the saler again:
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=000041&p=" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=000041&p=</a>
Maybe you need to talk to the saler again:
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=000041&p=" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=000041&p=</a>
09-05-2002, 04:52 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Actually I think I'm guilty here....
I've restarted the engine now and the "clack, clack" sound, combined with no excessive smoke, tells me that I destroyed either a big-end bearing or a Main bearing. I stopped the engine because I heard the rattle.
The reason I think I'm guilty is that the car ran with two cylinders for a while when the needle valve on one carb failed. This meant that two cylinders were washed with petrol. I didn't change to oil immediately after fixing the carb so I must have run the engine with oil diluted with petrol. This is the only thing I can think of - otherwise it's just that a bearing committed suicide. Either way I don't think the Guarantee will cover this.
Choices now come down to fitting a 912 90PS motor or getting some help from the 356 Stammtisch in Mannheim to rebuild the engine.
I've restarted the engine now and the "clack, clack" sound, combined with no excessive smoke, tells me that I destroyed either a big-end bearing or a Main bearing. I stopped the engine because I heard the rattle.
The reason I think I'm guilty is that the car ran with two cylinders for a while when the needle valve on one carb failed. This meant that two cylinders were washed with petrol. I didn't change to oil immediately after fixing the carb so I must have run the engine with oil diluted with petrol. This is the only thing I can think of - otherwise it's just that a bearing committed suicide. Either way I don't think the Guarantee will cover this.
Choices now come down to fitting a 912 90PS motor or getting some help from the 356 Stammtisch in Mannheim to rebuild the engine.
09-07-2002, 01:37 PM
#5
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Hello
Actually some fuel in the oil will not kill the bearings but i know people who had some oil in the fuel they used for lube there engines
I would look for a good spare engine and only if the numbers are matching on the car rebuilt the old one.
However rebuilding a 356 engine is a very easy and simple task and if you have a good machineshop its just simple bolting up
But it isnīt as simple as bolting VW engines togehter.( even those arenīt simple as US V8īs )
The low points are if you do the things correct and shop quality parts you run into the 3-5000 region. For the same money you can find a solid 356/912 engine or rebuild/tune a 912 engine.
Finding good 356/912 engines in germany is a bit difficult as when the Market reimportet cars from the stattes some 75% from them had catastrophic failures within months and that influenced the spare parts marked.
Also you still get offered such engines pulled from cars several years ago. They mostly run somehow for a while and then you are back again.
Best is you shop for a simpler 75 HP engine
Actually some fuel in the oil will not kill the bearings but i know people who had some oil in the fuel they used for lube there engines
I would look for a good spare engine and only if the numbers are matching on the car rebuilt the old one.
However rebuilding a 356 engine is a very easy and simple task and if you have a good machineshop its just simple bolting up
But it isnīt as simple as bolting VW engines togehter.( even those arenīt simple as US V8īs )
The low points are if you do the things correct and shop quality parts you run into the 3-5000 region. For the same money you can find a solid 356/912 engine or rebuild/tune a 912 engine.
Finding good 356/912 engines in germany is a bit difficult as when the Market reimportet cars from the stattes some 75% from them had catastrophic failures within months and that influenced the spare parts marked.
Also you still get offered such engines pulled from cars several years ago. They mostly run somehow for a while and then you are back again.
Best is you shop for a simpler 75 HP engine
09-09-2002, 09:42 AM
#6
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Hi Roland,
Yes, I've decided that I'm not going to get a big power engine - in fact the existing power weight ratio wasn't that bad. The car was fun to drive.
As the engine number wasn't the original according to the Kardex, I'm happy enough to get a new 75PS motor. I'm looking at one freshly rebuilt near Heidelberg but I just want to be sure it is not an industrial motor. It's probably worth the risk as I'd get new heat exchangers/exhaust/and all carbs/generator etc., for about the middle of your rebuild cost range.
Life isn't easy in the fast Lane.
Yes, I've decided that I'm not going to get a big power engine - in fact the existing power weight ratio wasn't that bad. The car was fun to drive.
As the engine number wasn't the original according to the Kardex, I'm happy enough to get a new 75PS motor. I'm looking at one freshly rebuilt near Heidelberg but I just want to be sure it is not an industrial motor. It's probably worth the risk as I'd get new heat exchangers/exhaust/and all carbs/generator etc., for about the middle of your rebuild cost range.
Life isn't easy in the fast Lane.