356 engine choice
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,049
Likes: 1
From: Germany
356 engine choice
OK - I've cried enough about my sick 356 and now I have four options and need advice for making a decision... 
one is rebuild my engine, a normal 60HP B engine
(Possibly with Scat crank etc., etc.,)
two is buy a rebuilt 75HP engine
three is buy a rebuilt 912 engine (90 HP)
or four is buy a brand new 1969 industry motor and fit carbs and exhausts/heatexchangesr to give me about 80 - 90 PS.
Anyone got strong opinions on the pros and cons of these options? the rebuilt motors are trustworthy and the prices of each option are not a hundred miles from each other.
I want to use the car for fun (sometimes fast fun) so this biases me against rebuilding the engine in stock 60HP, 4500RPM spec.
awaiting your comments wise or other wise
one is rebuild my engine, a normal 60HP B engine
(Possibly with Scat crank etc., etc.,)
two is buy a rebuilt 75HP engine
three is buy a rebuilt 912 engine (90 HP)
or four is buy a brand new 1969 industry motor and fit carbs and exhausts/heatexchangesr to give me about 80 - 90 PS.
Anyone got strong opinions on the pros and cons of these options? the rebuilt motors are trustworthy and the prices of each option are not a hundred miles from each other.
I want to use the car for fun (sometimes fast fun) so this biases me against rebuilding the engine in stock 60HP, 4500RPM spec.
awaiting your comments wise or other wise
Pro
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
From: Columbus, Ohio
I take this post as also saying you can afford all the above options.
Being in almost the same situation, except my 356 needs body work, and more also, I'd have to ask what could be better than new?
IF!
If that industrial engine is truely N.O.S. unused/new-old-stock?
My '56 is a Super, but the original engine is 32 years gone. There is a '59 Normal in it now, but I can't turn it over by hand. So it needs a rebuild.
Got lucky, and found a 912 engine and tranny, for $1500, and it is supposed to have a new big bore kit on top. Never re-installed into the car, as the owner wrecked the car before the rebuild was finished (must have had another engine.....).
Asked if the bottom end was redone at the same time, it wasn't
, so I have to disassemble and have the bottom end checked out, and at the same time, I'll find out if there really was a big bore kit installed. (Supposed to now be 1735cc's?)
Won't be able to use the 912 tranny, so it'll be going up for sale, a 901/2? Then the 912 muffler isn't going on the car either, so if I can remove it, without damaging it, I'll put it up for sale also. I am willing to do some trading, but there does not seem to be anyone who does this.....
I've been told to be careful of the newer horsepower, the transaxle may not survive the rebuilt engine, if I push it too much. So I suppose this also might be in your equations.....
Can't email you, send me your email addres. To:
Rickman@columbus.rr.com
Being in almost the same situation, except my 356 needs body work, and more also, I'd have to ask what could be better than new?
IF!
If that industrial engine is truely N.O.S. unused/new-old-stock?
My '56 is a Super, but the original engine is 32 years gone. There is a '59 Normal in it now, but I can't turn it over by hand. So it needs a rebuild.
Got lucky, and found a 912 engine and tranny, for $1500, and it is supposed to have a new big bore kit on top. Never re-installed into the car, as the owner wrecked the car before the rebuild was finished (must have had another engine.....).
Asked if the bottom end was redone at the same time, it wasn't
, so I have to disassemble and have the bottom end checked out, and at the same time, I'll find out if there really was a big bore kit installed. (Supposed to now be 1735cc's?) Won't be able to use the 912 tranny, so it'll be going up for sale, a 901/2? Then the 912 muffler isn't going on the car either, so if I can remove it, without damaging it, I'll put it up for sale also. I am willing to do some trading, but there does not seem to be anyone who does this.....
I've been told to be careful of the newer horsepower, the transaxle may not survive the rebuilt engine, if I push it too much. So I suppose this also might be in your equations.....
Can't email you, send me your email addres. To:
Rickman@columbus.rr.com
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,495
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From: Hsv AL
ID, I am in somewhat the same bathtub... my '59 was built w/ a N, now has an S needing a rebuild and I am leaning toward a 912 engine - drop-in & drive - then rebuild the S later "at leisure" (ha!) as a spare. I'd worry about other drivetrain mods as-you-go (transaxle/gearbox, brakes, susp. - you end up dealing with all that regardless on an old 356).
Keep us posted & good luck.
Keep us posted & good luck.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 115
Likes: 1
From: Bacliff Texas
I do not have a 356 but I sure love em. I would venture to say that you should decide based on what is most important to you. Concours? Performance? Personally I would advocate the complete rebuild. Actually, more like a remanufacture of your current (original?)engine.
mmmm. Something about those things always puts a smile on my face. Now after I come up with some brilliant idea and get rich, I will buy one or two.
mmmm. Something about those things always puts a smile on my face. Now after I come up with some brilliant idea and get rich, I will buy one or two.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 659
Likes: 7
I'd go with the 912/Industrial engine - but then I have a C coupe, so the match is closer. You may want to check out Harry Pellow's website (www.hcpresearch.com) - he has a list of things to change/use when putting in a different engine than what your car came with.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,049
Likes: 1
From: Germany
Thanks for the comments,
You can see my 356 on <a href="http://www.pca-gr.de" target="_blank">www.pca-gr.de</a> It's the red one at the bottom of the page.
My tendancy now is to go for the rebuilt 356 engine as the others all involve too much work.
Then I could rebuild my own engine over time but the car would be running and on the road.
The industry motor is brand new - still vacume packed - see <a href="http://www.porsche356service.de" target="_blank">www.porsche356service.de</a> but I've learned that to bring the motor up to my specifications I'd need to change an awful lot.
Decisions, Decisions, Decisions,
You can see my 356 on <a href="http://www.pca-gr.de" target="_blank">www.pca-gr.de</a> It's the red one at the bottom of the page.
My tendancy now is to go for the rebuilt 356 engine as the others all involve too much work.
Then I could rebuild my own engine over time but the car would be running and on the road.
The industry motor is brand new - still vacume packed - see <a href="http://www.porsche356service.de" target="_blank">www.porsche356service.de</a> but I've learned that to bring the motor up to my specifications I'd need to change an awful lot.
Decisions, Decisions, Decisions,
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Momence, IL
Hey guys,
I'm not too sure about what all is available out there as far as P/C's for the 356/912, but I just wanted to mention that we do make Solid Aluminum CNC Billet Nikasil-Plated
Aircooled Cylinder and Forged Piston Kits for the 356 (and 912). We also can have any custom grind webcam made up if someone has a cam change in mind or wants a cam designed for them- we do that too. If anyone has any questions, don't hesitate to make a post and ask or just drop by our website if you want to learn more- <a href="http://www.LNengineering.com" target="_blank">http://www.LNengineering.com</a>
I'm not too sure about what all is available out there as far as P/C's for the 356/912, but I just wanted to mention that we do make Solid Aluminum CNC Billet Nikasil-Plated
Aircooled Cylinder and Forged Piston Kits for the 356 (and 912). We also can have any custom grind webcam made up if someone has a cam change in mind or wants a cam designed for them- we do that too. If anyone has any questions, don't hesitate to make a post and ask or just drop by our website if you want to learn more- <a href="http://www.LNengineering.com" target="_blank">http://www.LNengineering.com</a>
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Advanced
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: Leeds, West Yorkshire... UK
Go for a rebuild and have the satisfaction of doing it yourself. They're not rocket science and then you don't end up buying a motor which you know nothing about.
Forget the scat crank... the stock crank is more than capable of handling 140bhp and the SC crank just adds weight.
1720cc from the Shasta pistons and a nice cam with some late heads and away you go
Just my opinion.
Mike Ghia
Forget the scat crank... the stock crank is more than capable of handling 140bhp and the SC crank just adds weight.
1720cc from the Shasta pistons and a nice cam with some late heads and away you go
Just my opinion.
Mike Ghia
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Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Knoxville, Tenn
There are several 356 rebuild issues. Like other air-cooled engines, the 356/912 engine will hide it's ailments up to the point it drops a valve or throws a rod.
Tearing down an unknown engine you are going to find a worn cam, a crank turned undersize a step or two, at least one crack between the spark plug and one of the valve seats in one or more of your heads and last and most expensive, the case will probably need to be align-bored just like a VW case. Trouble is the align-bore main bearings are hard to find and expensive ($300 to $400).
A young man my son and I are helping has already torn down his original engine and a purchased engine that was "just rebuilt" (I think they are all sold with that description) and found most of what I described. He managed to part out both engines and buy a really rebuilt 912 engine.
You can't rebuild this engine cheaply or leave out any of the expensive parts if you want longevity. And if you want longevity--even from the 912 engine--give up the idea of 140 hp. It is not sustainable long-term unless you are going racing and willing to tear down the engine regularly.
I'm a 50+ long-term 356 Registry guy and will be glad to try to tell you the truth and guide you thru the pitfalls.
LynnsABCs
Tearing down an unknown engine you are going to find a worn cam, a crank turned undersize a step or two, at least one crack between the spark plug and one of the valve seats in one or more of your heads and last and most expensive, the case will probably need to be align-bored just like a VW case. Trouble is the align-bore main bearings are hard to find and expensive ($300 to $400).
A young man my son and I are helping has already torn down his original engine and a purchased engine that was "just rebuilt" (I think they are all sold with that description) and found most of what I described. He managed to part out both engines and buy a really rebuilt 912 engine.
You can't rebuild this engine cheaply or leave out any of the expensive parts if you want longevity. And if you want longevity--even from the 912 engine--give up the idea of 140 hp. It is not sustainable long-term unless you are going racing and willing to tear down the engine regularly.
I'm a 50+ long-term 356 Registry guy and will be glad to try to tell you the truth and guide you thru the pitfalls.
LynnsABCs
