356 clone or the real deal...?
04-23-2006, 08:36 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
356 clone or the real deal...?
Hi, folks....
I usually hang out in the 993 board, but lurk here from time to time. I think the 356 is a beautiful car... and after owning a half dozen or so 911s over the last 30 years, I'd like to pick up a 356 coupe'.
I'm not much in the "mechanically inclined" genre' these days and I just like to jump into a vehicle and ride/drive or whatever. You know... pump the gas, change the oil and drive.
Purchasing an authentic 356 coupe that I can do this seems pretty pricey. It'd have to be 'restored', that goes without saying. Finding the "ONE" that is the color I want, and then become paranoid about parking it at work, along the road to check out some tag sale (naw, that ain't gonna happen), yada, yada.
I guess you get the point. I have a 2003 M5 and a '96 C4S. I drive the M5 daily... and the C4S 6K miles a year ... even to work. But, I don't need to have another car that needs constant monitoring, care, up keep and such. Plus, a 40 some year old car is not up to modern safety, maintenance, or performance specifications. Plus, 68 hp vs 165 or better is ... well, you know.
Soooooooooooo..... in this somewhat longish post, I'm wondering if a 'clone', or replica (shying away, sinking down now and donning flame suit...) is a better alternative for my just "gas it and drive it" frame of mind?
I've looked at many authentic 356s.... and several different companies that make really good replicas. I think for me a 'clone' is what I'd be happiest. And, less USDs spent to keep it running.. and .... I don't give a damn when I park it.
I found 2 companies that have products in which I'm interested. Both make cars that do not rely on VW engines, pans or size. Both use 'modern' power plants, modern suspensions, frames, brakes, electricals and other stuff that make the original 356 seem ... should I suggest.... archaic to drive anytime one wants.
These are the companies I've researched. Neither have many cars that have been completed, but the websites show many great (IMO) additions to the 356 that make it an affordable ... nearly... daily driver.
http://www.cswspeedster.com/index.html
http://www.specialtyauto.com/PORSCHE.htm
I'd like your expert opinions regarding such cars as these.... non-VW based is a BIG deal to me. Particularly any experience with these particular companies.
I appreciate your time and expertise.
I usually hang out in the 993 board, but lurk here from time to time. I think the 356 is a beautiful car... and after owning a half dozen or so 911s over the last 30 years, I'd like to pick up a 356 coupe'.
I'm not much in the "mechanically inclined" genre' these days and I just like to jump into a vehicle and ride/drive or whatever. You know... pump the gas, change the oil and drive.
Purchasing an authentic 356 coupe that I can do this seems pretty pricey. It'd have to be 'restored', that goes without saying. Finding the "ONE" that is the color I want, and then become paranoid about parking it at work, along the road to check out some tag sale (naw, that ain't gonna happen), yada, yada.
I guess you get the point. I have a 2003 M5 and a '96 C4S. I drive the M5 daily... and the C4S 6K miles a year ... even to work. But, I don't need to have another car that needs constant monitoring, care, up keep and such. Plus, a 40 some year old car is not up to modern safety, maintenance, or performance specifications. Plus, 68 hp vs 165 or better is ... well, you know.
Soooooooooooo..... in this somewhat longish post, I'm wondering if a 'clone', or replica (shying away, sinking down now and donning flame suit...) is a better alternative for my just "gas it and drive it" frame of mind?
I've looked at many authentic 356s.... and several different companies that make really good replicas. I think for me a 'clone' is what I'd be happiest. And, less USDs spent to keep it running.. and .... I don't give a damn when I park it.
I found 2 companies that have products in which I'm interested. Both make cars that do not rely on VW engines, pans or size. Both use 'modern' power plants, modern suspensions, frames, brakes, electricals and other stuff that make the original 356 seem ... should I suggest.... archaic to drive anytime one wants.
These are the companies I've researched. Neither have many cars that have been completed, but the websites show many great (IMO) additions to the 356 that make it an affordable ... nearly... daily driver.
http://www.cswspeedster.com/index.html
http://www.specialtyauto.com/PORSCHE.htm
I'd like your expert opinions regarding such cars as these.... non-VW based is a BIG deal to me. Particularly any experience with these particular companies.
I appreciate your time and expertise.
04-23-2006, 08:57 PM
#2
Drifting
Go for the real thing...I've been there and had both...there's nothing like a well sorted 356...as much fun as you can get with your pants on! You can't find the Porsche's soul in a repro! They are not hard to maintain as well, as long as you believe in preventive maintenance...
Good luck...
Good luck...
04-24-2006, 09:46 AM
#4
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Go for the real thing ! ! ! Otherwise, you really just buying a custom built VW powered dune buggy wrapped in an approximation of the 356 silhouette. It's not a question of being a clone or a replica or a fake or whatever . . . it's a VW pan or custom chassis with a bunch of VW mechanicals wrapped in fiberglass NOT a 356 at all. May as well have a Fiero body, or Miata body or custom body or whatever, but it certainly isn't a 356 Porsche. ! ! ! ! !
IMHO
TC
IMHO
TC
04-24-2006, 11:27 AM
#6
Lifetime Member
Hmmm..... Maybe my next 993 will be a clone since I found the real deal so expensive to maintain. That slippery slope can be a bitch.... 
Seriously, if you can swing it at all, get yourself a real 356. The clones look nice but they don't have the heart of a real 356.
JoAnne
Seriously, if you can swing it at all, get yourself a real 356. The clones look nice but they don't have the heart of a real 356.
JoAnne
04-24-2006, 11:01 PM
#7
Drifting
Originally Posted by RJT
Hmmm..... Maybe my next 993 will be a clone since I found the real deal so expensive to maintain.
JoAnne
JoAnne
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04-25-2006, 10:38 AM
#8
Three Wheelin'
As everyone has said, get the real thing...IMO it's not worth it to spend $25-30K on a replica when you can get a really nice coupe for that price [since you aren't looking for cabrios that is the pricing for a VERY nice driver coupe].
As for maintenance, I replaced my exhaust system [didn't have to it was just incorrect and rusted but still "worked"], distributor, got the valves adjusted, and I have driven 2500 miles on it with NO problems. When these cars are properly set up, they will run extremely well and reliably for a long long time.
I drive mine to and from work 3 times a week or more [although when it gets hot it's kinda rough with no A/C], and have taken it on multiple 500 mile trips as well. Never had an issue except for my ignition switch getting loose. Solution? Take a screwdriver and tighten it up [and I'm an idiot with a wrench--believe me].
As far as the 356 being "archaic", I don't think you have ever driven one. The engine, while "only" 70-75 HP in the later normal Cs and the late B cars, is plenty to get the car moving and it will go 90+MPH [although it will be buzzing around 4500 RPMs by then
]. The steering is excellent and will immediately remind you of your 911 in its directness and responsiveness. The drum brakes are a drawback, but the handling is incredible. You need to drive a real, well sorted 356 before you make a decision to buy a "less archaic" car because the cars are incredibly modern for their age in the way that they drive.
Soapbox off--if you ever come to Atlanta let me know and you can take my car around for a spin and see what you think.
As for maintenance, I replaced my exhaust system [didn't have to it was just incorrect and rusted but still "worked"], distributor, got the valves adjusted, and I have driven 2500 miles on it with NO problems. When these cars are properly set up, they will run extremely well and reliably for a long long time.
I drive mine to and from work 3 times a week or more [although when it gets hot it's kinda rough with no A/C], and have taken it on multiple 500 mile trips as well. Never had an issue except for my ignition switch getting loose. Solution? Take a screwdriver and tighten it up [and I'm an idiot with a wrench--believe me].
As far as the 356 being "archaic", I don't think you have ever driven one. The engine, while "only" 70-75 HP in the later normal Cs and the late B cars, is plenty to get the car moving and it will go 90+MPH [although it will be buzzing around 4500 RPMs by then
]. The steering is excellent and will immediately remind you of your 911 in its directness and responsiveness. The drum brakes are a drawback, but the handling is incredible. You need to drive a real, well sorted 356 before you make a decision to buy a "less archaic" car because the cars are incredibly modern for their age in the way that they drive.Soapbox off--if you ever come to Atlanta let me know and you can take my car around for a spin and see what you think.
04-25-2006, 11:57 AM
#9
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Few points. First, a kit car is a GREAT car. No doubt about it. BUT, it's not a Porsche, and never will be. Yes, VW and Porsche parts are similar and early 356s had some VW parts. But, again, they are not the same. The VW simply does not have the solid, really solid, smooth, quality, strong feel that a real 356 does. Again, a kit car is great, and will provide great fun. But, it will not provide the 356 driving experience.
Another very important point is that there are good 356s and bad ones, and few are remotely close to what they were when new. I've had all three: a kit, a real 356 set up in a way people would say is good, and a real 356 set up "Porsche-right." This gets down to even the smallest details, like even a properly rebuilt stock distributor provides a life and spunk (though not gobs of power) to the car that the 050 commonly used simply does not do. Get it done right and you will know what the 356 mystique is all about.
And, sorry Cole, but I have to strongly disagree with the negative comment on the drum brakes. Unless you are seriously racing with constant high energy and heat braking, the drums are fantastic! Even for racing less than full out where every second counts, the brakes are great. So, don't shy away from a drum brake car either.
Finally, even the 60hp Damen or Normal cars have plenty of power. Don't be deceived by the low number compared to the higher numbers of the cars today. In fact, some people prefer the 60hp Normal for more fun in daily driving - and many have pointed out that a well set up 60hp car can be vastly superior to the "hotter" SC and S90s not perfectly set up.
I strongly suggest you buying Jim Shrager's book on buying 356s. It will give you a lot of solid information about what to look for.
Good luck.
Jay
2000 Boxster S
1973 911T CIS
1963 356B, recently sold
1959 356A, on the hunt for it
Another very important point is that there are good 356s and bad ones, and few are remotely close to what they were when new. I've had all three: a kit, a real 356 set up in a way people would say is good, and a real 356 set up "Porsche-right." This gets down to even the smallest details, like even a properly rebuilt stock distributor provides a life and spunk (though not gobs of power) to the car that the 050 commonly used simply does not do. Get it done right and you will know what the 356 mystique is all about.
And, sorry Cole, but I have to strongly disagree with the negative comment on the drum brakes. Unless you are seriously racing with constant high energy and heat braking, the drums are fantastic! Even for racing less than full out where every second counts, the brakes are great. So, don't shy away from a drum brake car either.
Finally, even the 60hp Damen or Normal cars have plenty of power. Don't be deceived by the low number compared to the higher numbers of the cars today. In fact, some people prefer the 60hp Normal for more fun in daily driving - and many have pointed out that a well set up 60hp car can be vastly superior to the "hotter" SC and S90s not perfectly set up.
I strongly suggest you buying Jim Shrager's book on buying 356s. It will give you a lot of solid information about what to look for.
Good luck.
Jay
2000 Boxster S
1973 911T CIS
1963 356B, recently sold
1959 356A, on the hunt for it
04-26-2006, 06:47 PM
#10
Drifting
Originally Posted by Jay Laifman
I strongly suggest you buying Jim Shrager's book on buying 356s. It will give you a lot of solid information about what to look for.
04-26-2006, 09:48 PM
#11
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I think there are ways you can get a real 356 and achieve what you want. The hardcore pay extra for matching numbers motors and super correct restorations, BUT you don't have to. In fact you can maybe get a better driver, for a lot less money, by looking for a later model B or C with a non matching # engine (maybe even using a 912 case) and 12 volt conversion. A well prepared 356 is very low maintenance relative to say most of the vintage British sports cars. We have put thousands of mile on 356's in recent years and never been strandad.
04-26-2006, 11:22 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanx for the ideas, recommendations and comments folks. I appreciated all.
I'm not sure what I will eventually do. I love REAL 356 cars, but don't want some rusty bucket of bolts that will suck dollars like pounding sand down a rat hole to keep running and good looking. I certainly don't want that to happen.
A "NEW" (replica) car is just sooooooooo tempting with it's non rusting fiber whatever body, a modern 4cyl Honda or Subaru power plant with 12 volt electrics, better safety crumple zones, real heat and such. I won't buy a VW powered car.
I'll have to see some REAL 356s up close, sit in one, drive some, speak with owners and see what shakes out.
Again, thanx all for you help. You're the best!
I'm not sure what I will eventually do. I love REAL 356 cars, but don't want some rusty bucket of bolts that will suck dollars like pounding sand down a rat hole to keep running and good looking. I certainly don't want that to happen.
A "NEW" (replica) car is just sooooooooo tempting with it's non rusting fiber whatever body, a modern 4cyl Honda or Subaru power plant with 12 volt electrics, better safety crumple zones, real heat and such. I won't buy a VW powered car.
I'll have to see some REAL 356s up close, sit in one, drive some, speak with owners and see what shakes out.
Again, thanx all for you help. You're the best!
04-27-2006, 03:22 AM
#13
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I concur w/ Jay (you're dying for another 356, aren't you?). while 356s & 356 replicas may look similar, they do not feel the same when driven. if the look is more appealing then the feel, & fear of rust & old systems is paramount, get a replica. if the complete "high fidelity" 356 look & feel is most important, then you must research & drive real 356s to decide your target model & budget. best of luck & enjoy!
{just back from driving a '65 SC 1/2 way from AL to AZ - steady 80mph - what a blast!}
{just back from driving a '65 SC 1/2 way from AL to AZ - steady 80mph - what a blast!}
04-27-2006, 10:05 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
OK, folks....
I've had a few days to absorb your recommendation... "buy a REAL 356". That's kewl.
Now, for the real question..... where do I find one?
And what should I pay for a good driver 58-60 coupe?
That means one I don't have to spend another 6-10K USDs to get to the point of driving it to NH from CT for lunch on Sunday when the repair shops are closed and can't help me when the dang thing craps out.
Thanx again, m'friends.
I've had a few days to absorb your recommendation... "buy a REAL 356". That's kewl.
Now, for the real question..... where do I find one?
And what should I pay for a good driver 58-60 coupe?
That means one I don't have to spend another 6-10K USDs to get to the point of driving it to NH from CT for lunch on Sunday when the repair shops are closed and can't help me when the dang thing craps out.
Thanx again, m'friends.
04-27-2006, 10:12 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Just read this 'below'...
<<The 356 Registry is an amazing source of info about these cars. There are many places to start looking for the car. Bellow you can find some few links to start having fun:
http://www.europeancollectibles.com...e_make2=Porsche
http://www.gkrestorations.com/
http://www.paulrussell.com/
http://www.356sales.com/buy.html
http://www.sloancars.com/vs1/inventory.asp
Or you can go international to European sources for them such as:
http://www.elevenparts.com/
http://www.mirbach.de/
http://www.axelschuette.de/bin/ausw...un=lar&lang=eng
Have fun and remember... do a good homework in order not to get hurt. These cars are great to own and a joy to drive, they are increasing in value every year, but if you buy the wrong one... you can burn your fingers
Freddy>>
Makes me VERY nervous. I remember doing the same/same deal with a '70 Chevy LS6. I GUESSED correctly.... or I'd be stuck with some deal that woulda cost me 20Gs to restore. Hmmmmmmmmmmm..... (gulp...)
http://www.europeancollectibles.com...e_make2=Porsche
http://www.gkrestorations.com/
http://www.paulrussell.com/
http://www.356sales.com/buy.html
http://www.sloancars.com/vs1/inventory.asp
Or you can go international to European sources for them such as:
http://www.elevenparts.com/
http://www.mirbach.de/
http://www.axelschuette.de/bin/ausw...un=lar&lang=eng
Have fun and remember... do a good homework in order not to get hurt. These cars are great to own and a joy to drive, they are increasing in value every year, but if you buy the wrong one... you can burn your fingers
Freddy>>
Makes me VERY nervous. I remember doing the same/same deal with a '70 Chevy LS6. I GUESSED correctly.... or I'd be stuck with some deal that woulda cost me 20Gs to restore. Hmmmmmmmmmmm..... (gulp...)