TurboTime

Hi all,
Don't know too much about 356s, but I have an inside tip on a nice example (from what I've heard on the phone). I haven't seen it yet, but plan on checking it out later this week. Here's what I do know:

1955 100% original, hardtop, I think 1500cc, original powder blue paint with white top, 91K original miles, drivable after charging battery.

No Vin numbers yet. Ebay shows $30K is about the rate, but there are so few of them for sale.

What is your guess based on this limited info?

Thanks, TurboTime

hoffman912

hard top.... so do you mean coupe right? or do you mean speedster with a removeable hardtop (very rare option)? original paint, or original color repaint?
100% original unrestored or 100% original but has been restored? 100% orig as in concourse or as in barn find, never touched or driven in 40 years?


how is the rust? i mean seriously.. everywhere on the car.. even places you cant see but have to feel.. how is the rust? how is the motor? any clues to rust (ie headliner, how are seals, any bubbles or raises, or soft spots)? the electric problem.. is it just a bad battery, is it the generator, or voltage regulator? any other gremlins?

what kind of history does the car have? whats documented? recipts? who has done the work? is this original owner or the 20th owner? has it been restored or is it original? who did the restoration? who did the engine rebuild? again.. did i ask about rust

condition can mean one thing, and condition can mean another. promenonce is alot with these cars.. maybe not a specific famous owner per say... but, is it original owner.. and who did the work. the later means alot. an engine from Harry Pellow or Duane Spencer, or even Vic Skirmants will affect the value of the car very positivly, where as one built by a vw wrench or joe shmoe on the street corner can do so negativly.. who did the body work.. that will effect the value of the car. the recipts showing when work was done and who did the work and the quality of the work.. that effects the value of the car. is it a numbers matching car?
whether its all original or not will effect value. whether its been bastardised with mods and after market updates (which destroy value.. all together) or not. how much rust it has will dramatically effect value... it has some.. even a tiney amount somehwer hidden deep inside somewhere (and yes.. it will have rust somewhere unless it was a 1 in 1 million chance it was put in a sealed cliamate chamber perfectly stored or just got a perfect resto and repaint... even then it will have a little.. if anyone else says otherwise, they are kidding themselves... even in california).

my guess on limited info.. give us more info. honestly, values depend alot on the different variables involved.

whatever you do.. get a ppi by someone who knows porsche 356s.. not volkswagons.. not porsche 944s and 911s.. but 356s.. they are a different beast, and those who know enough about them are falling by the wayside.

know and research everything you arwe getting into before you take the plunge. when you do, and you are well informed, and you get the right car.. all the planets will be alligned and as straight as the body of the car itself, and all will be good with the world, and karma will flow all around the world... and you will be happy as a clam and have the biggest grin on yer face!

keep the faith

RJT

Holy Cow Harry!!!! Once again you've nailed it! Not much else to be said.
I am also a liitle confused with the "hardtop" description. Is it a cab with a removable hardtop? If this is an original condition 55 cab with little rust issues, it is worth alot more than 30K. There is a 53 cab at European Collectibles priced at 49.5K that looks pretty nice. But it could easily have hidden issues underneath. An early 55 that would have been designated a "Continental" especially a cab, would or could be more like 60K. Continentals were only made in early 55 for a short time, which equates to $$$.
So......sounds very interesting, but if you can post a picture or supply the VIN we might be able to help more.

Brett Matthews

Hmmm, did Harry mention rust or not?

I think he did..... Yep, a VERY important consideration. Look for it EVERYWHERE!

And about that Californian 356? I've got it, and he was dead on RIGHT about that as well! It's a black plate southern Californian as well, and it needs a LOT of bodywork! You can be assured at least, that the battery box needs some attention!

Look at the frames of the seats as well, I think they are wooden, and that old, may be deteriorating. May. My original seat frames are wooden. They SEEM to be ok, but I'll know once the upholsterer sheds the covers...... Fortunately for me, I have a set out of '59A as well, so if there are issues, I have a backup.....

Could be a good find, let us know. And post pics!!!!!!! A PPI is a definite needed check!

TurboTime

Thanks guys, all your comments are very helpful. I've arranged to look at the car this week. It has the original blue and white top paint job. The two-tone color was a special order on the car - and it is a coupe (non- removable top). I hope to have the VIN number soon and maybe you can provide me more info. I won't be able to get the engine number until I see the car. I will post pics if I can (not a member yet).

I was really hoping it was a speedster with removable top ;o)

I know the coupes don't fetch as much for resale and certainly don't qualify for bigger loan amounts for financing.

I'll let you know more info as I get it. Again thanks for the help, any info is appreciated. What would you say the coupes top out at for resale?

Know of any trusted 356 knowledgable PPI providers in CA?

TurboTime

hoffman912

sorry i didnt mean to come off preachy on my last post, but really, a lot of things go into the value of these cars.

ok 1st things last.. what kind of car are you looking for. concourse, wash n shine original, driver, or *****-out outlaw?

if its a concourse.. expect lots of $$$ and it better be all original, or parts replaced with original bits.. no after market. wash n shine.. not concourse, but grat condition and original. if you want a driver, make sure things have been upgraded properly with good 356/912 parts (ie gear box, 912 engine, etc.). in the land of vintage porsches.. half the stuff from tweeks is crap. but some bits are good. outlaws and drivers go from mild to wild (ie 100 hp stock 912 motor.. to 140 hp 912 motor with shasta p&c, full flow oil cooler, scat crank... to a jake rabey built type 4 motor.. all the way to a dean popolous 4 cyl 911 motor). if youre blessed and its an outlaw, someone put bucks in a threw a 4 cam in.. but thats a 1 in 1 million chance that we would all love ) have the brakes been upgraded to disk or are they stock drum brakes?

rust: anywhere water can sit, or seep into the car and sit. IE: window seals, any nook and crany, hinge, trunk, floor pans, rear shelf behind seat, under seats, head light bucket, window seals, floors, (did i mention window seals and doors ), and place there is a gap between panels, bumpers, undercarage (everywhere!!!!!!), wheel wells, inbetween a arms, and tortion bar covers, and all through out the suspension.. gas tank door..

how straight is the body? how are the door gaps? do you notice any discoloration and differneces in paint between the body, and trunk/engine area/doors? and differences in color through out the exterior paint? any other evidence of repaint?

how is the suspension when you drive it? tight, loose? how are the front wheel bearings? are there squeeks? how are the brakes?
what happens when you hit the brakes? stop/dosent stop, or does it pull to one side or the other?

how is the motor? does it sound really clunky, or smooth? do you hear valve tapping? when was it rebuilt? who did it? what was done top end or both top and bottom? when was it last tuned? oil change? what kind of upgrades done to engine? what kind of distributor? is it an 009? (yes this matters.. 009=vw=not enough advance=sign of cheep fix=does owner know what they are doing?=concern of how well everythings been maintained.

where do you live in cali? lots of good people and bad people to go to through out cali.

speaking of which.. again.. if the engine was done by harry pellow, or duane spencer.. youre mostlikely gold (no pun intended robert, we all know harry loved his gold engines ).

rosamond.. thats south of bakersfield, between LA and bakersfield.. hmmmmm

i can suggest an 356/912 engine guru in LA to go to.. dont know if he knows too much about 356s in general, but he will tell you how good your engine is. Roberts the so cal guru, so he would be the guy to ask there.

if youre willing to go to san clamente call Jack Staggs at 949.492.9606.00
as he is a great 356 guy in so cal. (yes, his phone number is printed like a porsche parts number on hs buisnes card )

i say contact the 356 registry.

anyways.. its still hard to say what youre looking at and how much its worth. no one will know unless we know the specifics. (pics would help some but not much)..

hope this helps some at least.

keep the faith

Harry

hoffman912

oh.. dont trust ebay prices.. ebay is what people generally try to pawn off as good cars, to unsuspecting, uninformed buyers

Brett Matthews

Another note,
Hope you have heard of double clutching. I am NOT sure when syncro's were fully used, but the original trany in my '56, was NOT syncro'd. They are called crashbox's for a reason! If you can look at the transaxle case, see if it is a split case, or a tunnel case: If a split, it's an original, and probably a crashbox. Vic Skirmants does work on them.

There was an article in one of the 356 Registry's magazine, about the different mounting systems used....I think ....I'd have to search around for it.... But my point here is, you may not be able to easily "upgrade" to a syncro'd transaxle.... IF you'd want to......

So MANY different things to think about!

Steve Jensen

There is a list of people who can/will do PPIs on the 356 Registry website... I'd also post to 356talk (the listserv they sponsor).

hoffman912

Brett, i never knew that about the gear boxes! great info. btw, ever find those bumpers or whatever it was youre looking for? you might want to contact Ed Pimm.. he has quite a bit of goodies in his shop, including a 55 speedster being restored with those front bumpers... id say he could have another set or might know where to get em. (the owner said they were on the cardex, but they were never on the car when it arrived at the shop so Ed had to get a set or pull em out of a closet or somthing... you have to remember this is a guy with a D roadster rotting away behind his barn/shop, and he wont sell it..)

heres a bad pic.. but 2 speedsters in the midst of a resto taken last week when i dropped off mein 912...



and heres a 3rd one getting appolstered (done with paint). Jay (a fellow 912er who followed me over) is checkin out the floor pans. '