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Driver & Instructor killed at SpeedVegas

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Old 02-13-2017, 03:12 PM   #31
mark kibort
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I don't know if it would have changed the outcome for this horrible accident but it is also a reminder that once you get out of the green run group you should start looking for a fire suit.

Fire doesn't know it is only a practice session and not a race.

Tragic.
racing , or driving on a track , like flying, is not inherently unsafe.... however as everyone knows, " It is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
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Old 02-13-2017, 03:13 PM   #32
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Old 02-13-2017, 03:33 PM   #33
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racing , or driving on a track , like flying, is not inherently unsafe.... however as everyone knows, " It is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
True and that's why you should always take steps to even the odds.

DE culture is such that DE drivers, as opposed to racers, are deemed "posers" if they wear race suits. I'll admit I never owned a race suit until I started racing but I think it is a mistake.

Again, we don't know what happened here: driver error, tire failure, suspension failure, etc.
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Old 02-13-2017, 03:52 PM   #34
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RIP


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Originally Posted by LuigiVampa View Post
True and that's why you should always take steps to even the odds.

DE culture is such that DE drivers, as opposed to racers, are deemed "posers" if they wear race suits. I'll admit I never owned a race suit until I started racing but I think it is a mistake.

Again, we don't know what happened here: driver error, tire failure, suspension failure, etc.

Felt the same way with DE until I bought a suit to help out during a AER race with fueling. Having a wreck at Palmer Motorsports during the race and the amount of time it took to for people to get to the driver made me realize that if it happened during a DE day buying all the time possible with the correct safety gear for safety crews to reach you could be the difference between life and death.
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Old 02-13-2017, 04:38 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by LuigiVampa View Post
True and that's why you should always take steps to even the odds.

DE culture is such that DE drivers, as opposed to racers, are deemed "posers" if they wear race suits. I'll admit I never owned a race suit until I started racing but I think it is a mistake.

Again, we don't know what happened here: driver error, tire failure, suspension failure, etc.
Whey my car hit oil and I spun into a wall hard at a DE, my one thought was "why I didn't have a fire suit on". Never again... I had all the other safety gear too.

RIP for this accident.
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Old 02-13-2017, 04:54 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by LuigiVampa View Post
True and that's why you should always take steps to even the odds.

DE culture is such that DE drivers, as opposed to racers, are deemed "posers" if they wear race suits. I'll admit I never owned a race suit until I started racing but I think it is a mistake.

Again, we don't know what happened here: driver error, tire failure, suspension failure, etc.
Id say with 90% certainly we know what happened, because statistically, thats what is the cause of these kind of crashes. certainly the bad luck is in how the off occurred and what he hit. that could also be a bad design of the track. generally, there should be no difference of driving up my mountain road that millions travel up every year without incident, UNLESS over speed is related.
cars just dont crash on their own, unless something REALLY major goes wrong. its not saying that it cant happen, its highly unlikely and is so likely that it is driver error, with someone not experienced to drive a car with the power and capabilities. you see that stuff in DEs nearly every weekend... hardly ever in races. you see that in qualifying usually by the yahoo that shouldn't have a race license. (like the guy that killed the two in the carrera GT in LA.. he crashed in qualifying in a WCGT session earlier that year) instructors NEED to back these guys down in speed, otherwise more will die. this sport is getting more and more popular. im amazed that this can even go on with all we know about how dangerous motorsports can be. especially by someone untrained.

I also agree.. the driving suits. yep, any time you are going above street speeds, you need helmet and suit. period. in fact, more than you do in a race car!! why??? more likely to get in a crash that can hurt you! just the stats folks!

Youre right, we dont know what the reason was exactly... but more than likely , it was NOT some kind of mechanical issue
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Old 02-13-2017, 05:41 PM   #37
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I instructed many of these events for one of the "traveling" exotics companies.

No more - and this crash is a primary reason why.

In my experience, 95% of the people were respectful, they listened, they wanted to have fun and have a bucket list experience. In many cases I would encourage them to go faster because they probably drove quicker on the turnpike getting to the track. But I ONLY encouraged more speed if they were being respectful and following my instructions. I literally had plenty of drivers who never went above 60, and even had a guy who never exceeded 45 mph - but I didn't care - he had fun and it's all about making it fun and safe for the client.

I had one guy who was in a bet with his brother (they owned a car dealership who had rented the event for a couple hours as a private team building event for the employees). They bet to see who had the faster lap.

He was a complete idiot and would not listen. When we pitted in he begged to go out again, and begged to let him go out without a pace car. IMO the pace car was useless often staying too far ahead. Of course I said no and let the organizers make the decision (they also said no). He was paying for the event and figured that entitled him to do whatever he wanted.

And WTF are they thinking giving drivers data acquisition? I'm all for giving them a video of their laps, and photos - but DO NOT give them lap times. All it does it make it a contest and that makes no sense given the lack of skill.

We as instructors were usually most nervous with the twenty somethings who spent time on video games. They were fearless on track and had no concept that it can be fatal to make a mistake. They only related to the video game situation where they were very fast and walked away from every crash. We especially hated being in the GT-R as it seemed to attract the youngsters more so than the Lambo - Ferrari - GT3 or R8 (although there were exceptions).

Initially the work was fun, but for me became a grind very quickly. The pay was ridiculously low especially for the risk (how can they possibly pay commensurate with risk?)

As much as we risk being in the right seat at a DE - those folks are driving their own car and more motivated not to hurt themselves or their car and instructor.

The exotics experience had zero passenger controls so you were at the complete mercy of the driver. If they didn't listen - you were at risk.

RIP to the two gentlemen and thoughts to their families and loved ones. It's a tragic event.
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Old 02-13-2017, 06:04 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by needmoregarage View Post
I had one guy who was in a bet with his brother (they owned a car dealership who had rented the event for a couple hours as a private team building event for the employees). They bet to see who had the faster lap.
Scary scenario.

I've done this kind of team building event with my staff an indoor electric karting facility. We were able to compete, and crash into walls and each other, with close to zero safety risk.

I can't even imagine doing that sort of thing with real cars at high speeds with real risk.
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Old 02-13-2017, 06:12 PM   #39
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Scary scenario.

I've done this kind of team building event with my staff an indoor electric karting facility. We were able to compete, and crash into walls and each other, with close to zero safety risk.

I can't even imagine doing that sort of thing with real cars at high speeds with real risk.
Several of my instructor friends still do these events.

One of my friends was right seat in a Lambo and the driver wasn't listening and got into trouble in the most dangerous corner on the track. They ended up going off on one side, and sling-shooting across to the other side into the guard rail.

I heard the car bounced a couple feet in the air upon impact.

I also heard that the driver's credit card was pinged for the maximum insurance option he had chosen (required by the event) before he even got back to the pits.

In the instructor meeting we were all given "codes" to get on the radio in case of various mishaps. There was always an ambulance on site ready to go. I don't know how well trained the staff was in the case of a serious incident involving injury - but we definitely discussed what could go wrong, and how to handle various situations.

Every instructor had a two way radio in the car that was in communication with other instructors on track (for passing permission) and also with the "pit boss" (last lap reminder - time to pit, and any other special instructions).

This is tragic and my thoughts go out to everyone affected.
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Old 02-13-2017, 06:56 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by needmoregarage View Post
I instructed many of these events for one of the "traveling" exotics companies.

No more - and this crash is a primary reason why.

In my experience, 95% of the people were respectful...
Yep, agree with the whole post. All you need is some guy pumped up and all full of himself to have a really bad day. Radio codes or some other external nonsense isn't going to do anything for an instructor with a "know it all" in the driver's seat and the capabilities of those cars.

I've actually had a real "student from hell" and I believe the only thing that got him listening to my yelling was the fact the car was his and it had far lower capabilities than those exotics.

That video they allowed published that I linked to earlier is not going to help with the amped up idiots - it actually encourages them.

-Mike
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Old 02-13-2017, 08:08 PM   #41
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Tragic and horrifying.
Sincere condolences to all involved and their loved ones.

Needmoregarage: I'm SO glad to hear you're not doing this anymore.

Personally, this hits home hard.
After eagerly and diligently working toward that goal, I just picked up my "Instructor Wings" with the Florida Citrus Region at Roebling RD Raceway yesterday.

But I always wear my controversial/exceedingly yellow fireproof suit becoz.....to paraphrase Luigi/Todd..."Ya never know."

Last edited by RickyBobby; 02-13-2017 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 02-13-2017, 09:28 PM   #42
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I've run a race car on this track for testing and promo event for track (no affiliation at all).

IMO the track and facilities is top notch, its a very fun short technical track. There is nothing I saw or noticed in the design that worried me...

When you drive a car fast on the street or the track, anything can happen and accidents do happen..thats why they call them "accidents"...

My thoughts go out to the families of this tragic accident
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Old 02-13-2017, 09:34 PM   #43
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Video captured from the adjacent highway. That's a LOT of smoke.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/new...peedvegas.html
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:39 AM   #44
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Video captured from the adjacent highway. That's a LOT of smoke.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/new...peedvegas.html
Pretty rare for a street car to burst into flames like that.
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:35 AM   #45
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I would think much of the smoke is the tire wall
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