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At Road America I was handed a 1 lap penalty for passing under yellow. When reviewing video with the scrutineers, we agreed the pass was made successfully before the corner worker station at the Carousel. They said that the flag was presented in T8 (they took a photo on a phone, zoomed in, etc.) before the pass was made. I know it wasn't the best decision making in general, but what do yall think about a double yellow being shown in T8???
What do you mean by "what do y'all think about" it?? The vide is not high enough quality to see it very well....is it in the shade? Is that your problem with it?
So you were called in by the corner worker for an alleged pass under yellow and that was shown on a white board by the Scruts at the end of the session? I assume that you appealed within 30 minutes and the Steward reviewed the video and decided that the corner worker made a mistake and that you had completed the pass?
From your video, it seems that you got extremely lucky as you just barely completed the pass prior to the flag station. I would not have taken the risk and called it that close, especially for passing (I assume) an out of class car.
Thanks! I did catch some luck with a desperate move, and we did review video immediately after the race. I had a good friend in an in-class car immediately behind me and I was trying to put a car in between us (big incident on lap 1, turn 1, we knew it would be a double yellow at some point). Upon review after the race, we agreed the pass was complete before the carousel, but they said the flag was displayed at T8 prior to the pass. Can anybody else see a flag in T8? Just looking to see if I am crazy here, if I missed a flag in T8, misinterpreted the rules, etc. Thanks for the input!
Once the course goes double yellow it is yellow everywhere, so completing the pass prior to the station really has no bearing on this. If you saw a double yellow you should immediately back off. This is different than a single yellow.
Last edited by Pete Debusmann; 09-09-2024 at 10:30 AM.
Thanks! I did catch some luck with a desperate move, and we did review video immediately after the race. I had a good friend in an in-class car immediately behind me and I was trying to put a car in between us (big incident on lap 1, turn 1, we knew it would be a double yellow at some point). Upon review after the race, we agreed the pass was complete before the carousel, but they said the flag was displayed at T8 prior to the pass. Can anybody else see a flag in T8? Just looking to see if I am crazy here, if I missed a flag in T8, misinterpreted the rules, etc. Thanks for the input!
Sorry for misunderstanding your question. It seems that there was no yellow flag at T8.
Once the course goes double yellow it is yellow everywhere, so completing the pass prior to the station really has no bearing on this. If you saw a double yellow you should immediately back off. This is different than a single yellow.
THIS (above, from Pete) is exactly the correct answer.. When double yellows are displayed, you need to understand the ENTIRE track is under yellow flag conditions - the track in front of you, the track behind you, and the track you are currently but temporarily occupying. There is no other answer here, folks. It's true in every club, pro series and FIA international rules. Stewards might show leniency if it's just popped yellow, but it's not the case here.
PHT
Club stew for various orgs
FIA International Steward License (current)
...and a partridge in a pear tree.
Thank you!! That was the clarification I needed, I was under the impression the pass had to be completed prior to the corner worker, but sounds like for the double yellow that it takes effect as soon as it is displayed. If that is the case, the pass definitely happened after it was displayed at the station entering the carousel. Many thanks to those who chimed in, I'll definitely be demonstrating more conservative behavior in the future.
Once the course goes double yellow it is yellow everywhere, so completing the pass prior to the station really has no bearing on this. If you saw a double yellow you should immediately back off. This is different than a single yellow.
Yes
But even after watching the video multiple times I can just barely tell the flagger is holding a DOUBLE yellow and not single yellow. At speed, i assume that would be difficult to see at that point, no?
I've seen this happen before that a flagger holds either single or double yellows, but are holding them in a way the drivers can't see them well. T1 at Road Atlanta for example - they are in a flagger hut and the post on the hut is sometimes obscuring the flags to the drivers.
I have a couple good friends who flag for IMSA and they preach constantly on making sure they over exaggerate the showing of the flags because of the impact of them. Would be good practice at the flaggers meetings before a race to emphasize that.
To me the larger question is why. This is club racing; It’s far more important to be safe than to try and complete some sketchy pass. If you are that close to the flag station and there’s any yellow flag, not just a double yellow, just back out of the pass so that it’s not in question.
Yes
But even after watching the video multiple times I can just barely tell the flagger is holding a DOUBLE yellow and not single yellow. At speed, i assume that would be difficult to see at that point, no?
I've seen this happen before that a flagger holds either single or double yellows, but are holding them in a way the drivers can't see them well. T1 at Road Atlanta for example - they are in a flagger hut and the post on the hut is sometimes obscuring the flags to the drivers.
I have a couple good friends who flag for IMSA and they preach constantly on making sure they over exaggerate the showing of the flags because of the impact of them. Would be good practice at the flaggers meetings before a race to emphasize that.
I was a flagger for 11years and a corner chief for many years , the crew chief assigns flag responsibilty according to the series and crew experience … trust me the corner workers are very aware on how to present a double yellow !
To me the larger question is why. This is club racing; It’s far more important to be safe than to try and complete some sketchy pass. If you are that close to the flag station and there’s any yellow flag, not just a double yellow, just back out of the pass so that it’s not in question.
Oh, totally agree. But if you're in the middle of making a pass and have momentum and see that yellow, it really doesn't look like a double and maybe just figure you can complete the pass in time. Maybe someone was right on his tail and slamming on the brakes (or lifting) would cause more issues?
I mean, I get it Colin, you're pass would be to lap people... but some of us actually need to race! lol
I was a flagger for 11years and a corner chief for many years , the crew chief assigns flag responsibilty according to the series and crew experience … trust me the corner workers are very aware on how to present a double yellow !
Cheers
Phil
not doubting you at all and THANK YOU to you and all the flaggers that allow us to be out there having fun!
All I'm saying is there are times when, for whatever reason, it's very difficult to see the flag in certain situations.
To me the larger question is why. This is club racing; It’s far more important to be safe than to try and complete some sketchy pass. If you are that close to the flag station and there’s any yellow flag, not just a double yellow, just back out of the pass so that it’s not in question.
In addition, odds are the pass was made because the other car lifted when the driver saw the yellow.
09-09-2024, 12:45 AM
Passing under yellow?
