Long term Macan "Test Drive" -- or, why I sold my Macan Turbo after 6 months
03-27-2015, 03:37 AM
#166
Hey, its Germany. I don't know if its still true, but I believe there was at one point (and may still be) employee representation at the level of the Board of Directors.
The country does a magnificent job of educating its technical workforce. I do a lot of business there and am continuously impressed (and often surprised) at how well many things work. And, I guess they have manage to keep three pretty successful car companies despite a number of historical turns-of-events that might have eliminate such industries.
Shiny happy employees make shiny happy cars.
The country does a magnificent job of educating its technical workforce. I do a lot of business there and am continuously impressed (and often surprised) at how well many things work. And, I guess they have manage to keep three pretty successful car companies despite a number of historical turns-of-events that might have eliminate such industries.
Shiny happy employees make shiny happy cars.
03-28-2015, 05:12 PM
#168
Pretty "off subject", still, I feel that I want to add :
I'm not German, and have no (..to my knowledge!) German origin, and, this been said: Very very sorry, but I think that this could have happen anywhere in the World.
The thing that concerns me is the fact that the "doctors" (or hospitals), that THEY KNEW he was a co-pilot, but did not forward a single note to his employer !
OK, about "medical secret", but here we are talking about THEIR FULL responsability of 149 other persons.
To my eyes, the key question is : Why a "secret note" has never been transmitted from doctors to the employer ?
This been said, I'm confident that the airline industry, that already offer a very high level of safety, will improve even more, after such crazy case.
With all my condolences to all the families and friends touched by this tragedy.
Sorry again for the "off subject" here.
I'm not German, and have no (..to my knowledge!) German origin, and, this been said: Very very sorry, but I think that this could have happen anywhere in the World.
The thing that concerns me is the fact that the "doctors" (or hospitals), that THEY KNEW he was a co-pilot, but did not forward a single note to his employer !
OK, about "medical secret", but here we are talking about THEIR FULL responsability of 149 other persons.
To my eyes, the key question is : Why a "secret note" has never been transmitted from doctors to the employer ?
This been said, I'm confident that the airline industry, that already offer a very high level of safety, will improve even more, after such crazy case.
With all my condolences to all the families and friends touched by this tragedy.
Sorry again for the "off subject" here.
Last edited by GVA-SFO; 03-28-2015 at 07:08 PM.
03-29-2015, 03:48 PM
#169
Rennlist Member
To give you the perspective from a family doctor point of view, there is this word called "confidentiality" between physician and patients. This word is pretty big.
True that I will report certain communicable diseases to the authority, but we need authorization from the patient, or else do not report his name, just the disease.
Also, it is very easy for a patient to hide information from his doctor. If he has determined to do something bad, he will not tell anyone. The one that comes in with suicidal thoughts are looking for my help.
Last edited by Targa Tim; 03-29-2015 at 06:32 PM.
03-29-2015, 06:12 PM
#170
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Still employee representation, 50%, chairman's vote (capital / shareholder representatives) counts twice. Works ok, ensures buy in of work force.
And Porsche employees got record bonus, any worker more than €8000 per person.
03-30-2015, 07:32 PM
#171
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Love The Macan
Used to spend a lot of time in Germany when I was a soccer coach and then worked for VW Audi Porsche in sales in The States. Totally sold on German Craftsmanship. Wife and I wanted an SUV that is not too big and has the workmanship and quality of our BMW and Wolfsburg built VW.... There is only one SUV in the world that fits that billl. I ordered The Macan S 2 weeks ago. (and then joined this site)
04-05-2015, 01:20 AM
#172
@Waveforce : I'm curious, over the time, with "what" did you replace your Macan ?
Did you went to the "Neighbor", and ordered a "Levante" ??
I'm pretty sure that this one will put a little nick on the Macan sales ! ..And, at least, with a Levante, you will have 4 pistons rear brakes (and for sure, 6 in the front) !
Some time, playing too cheap, the "World" goes upside down !
Did you went to the "Neighbor", and ordered a "Levante" ??
I'm pretty sure that this one will put a little nick on the Macan sales ! ..And, at least, with a Levante, you will have 4 pistons rear brakes (and for sure, 6 in the front) !
Some time, playing too cheap, the "World" goes upside down !
04-05-2015, 06:07 AM
#173
Levante will probably be the quality disaster and lousy driver that the Ghibli is. Peruse their forums if one wants to see what a POS looks like. Too bad, as I like the way it looks save for some rare awkward angles and a some bland sections up close, as well as fit/finish issues.
Not only that, but being a Maserati, you're all but guaranteed unforeseen depreciation or minimum 20% blowout discount on a purchase or lease. Right now early Ghibli owners are either stuck with having overpaid for models being now given out at dealers to clear lot inventory or depreciation even they didn't expect. And Ghibli boards full of guys having to wait weeks if not months to get appointments at Maserati dealerships to fix the many common issues on the car, due to an unprepared flooding of cars. The Levante will ride on the same platform (consisting of many Chrysler/Dodge parts and to be shared with the next generation Chrysler and Dodge cars).
It'll be a nice option to have if you like larger more true SUV's. But it likely won't compare as a fundamental product. Think 911 vs Maser GT in a different realm.
Not only that, but being a Maserati, you're all but guaranteed unforeseen depreciation or minimum 20% blowout discount on a purchase or lease. Right now early Ghibli owners are either stuck with having overpaid for models being now given out at dealers to clear lot inventory or depreciation even they didn't expect. And Ghibli boards full of guys having to wait weeks if not months to get appointments at Maserati dealerships to fix the many common issues on the car, due to an unprepared flooding of cars. The Levante will ride on the same platform (consisting of many Chrysler/Dodge parts and to be shared with the next generation Chrysler and Dodge cars).
It'll be a nice option to have if you like larger more true SUV's. But it likely won't compare as a fundamental product. Think 911 vs Maser GT in a different realm.
05-13-2015, 11:34 PM
#174
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Hi,
With all the raving about the Macan, I thought I'd add some balance to the mix by giving my -- somewhat contrarian -- view; one that I feel so strongly about I actually *sold* my Macan Turbo after only 6 months (and 9,000 miles) of ownership.
The intent of this post is not to bash the Macan or make current owners feel bad -- it's to warn folks who are thinking about buying one. So if you already own one and/or have put in a non-refundable deposit, DO NOT read this. It's not for you.
OK, so to start: yes, everything everybody says about the Macan's handling is true: the car does have fantastic handling, better than any other small SUV, and quite honestly better than most cars on the market right now, period.
If you haven't ever owned a Porsche you probably will love it and keep it for many years, because it is in every way better than other small SUVs on the market.
*However*... as a lifetime Porsche fan I feel that except for the handling it fails to meet any standard Porsche has set in the past 10 years, and it is arguably the worst Porsche model right now in every single way, and not really worthy of the Porsche badge -- it should have been the 2nd generation Q5.
In other words, I would have no problem with it if it came with an Audi badge and an Audi price. But it fails to meet the standards set by its badge and premium price.
With the Executive Summary out of the way, here's how I reached that conclusion:
First of all -- let me be clear I'm excluding all the usual 1st-model-year-early-build Quality Assurance issues that are typical of most cars; meaning, when I ordered one I knew I was in for many hours at the dealership fixing things that are covered by the many campaigns early builds have. So out of my conclusions are things that my dealer did fix (and there were many of those).
So here are the issues, grouped in buckets, with the Macan's *design* -- things the dealer can't fix -- that I feel make it a 2nd rate Porsche:
- Bucket 1: Second-rate Cabin Insulation
There are many issues with the way the Macan's cabin is insulated from the outside. That is a big deal for me in a sedan or SUV (not in a coupe or convertible of course), and my standards were set by my Cayenne and Panameras. Symptoms of the problem are many and widespread (observed with not only my Macan but a few others and confirmed by Porsche upon my dealerships inquiry): constant rattling issues, air recirculation that still pulls air from the outside (yes, if you press the A/C recirc button, outside air -- and outside smells -- still get into the cabin), condensation issues around the windows, etc.
My dealer was super-patient in adding lots of extra insulation and felt tape to the doors, but c'mon, having to do that in a Porsche SUV? Really? And the air recirc problem is literally unsolvable -- it's a design flaw, as are the condensation issues.
- Bucket 2: Second-rate powertrain
OK, so the Macan has 400 hp. And the engine sounds great. But the PDK on the Macan is *not* smooth -- not Porsche smooth -- and frequently does ridiculous stuff, especially in inclines and slow speeds. And no, it doesn't get better with time, as it learns your driving style. In fact, it tends to get worse. Also, the Auto Start-Stop function is terribly clunky too (as compared to the Panamera's), which is particularly problematic since the Macan's fuel economy is terrible for today's standards (only very slightly better than the Cayenne's).
- Bucket 3: Second-rate options at first-rate prices
I loaded up my Macan based on my great experience with certain Porsche options, in particular in my Panamera: for example, I got the Burmester and the Thermal/Sound insulating glass. Total waste of money: the Burmester is only marginally better than the Bose on my Cayenne and it's in no way comparable to the Burmester on the Panamera. Not even close. The Thermal/Sound insulating glass is completely useless, it really does nothing compared to not having it (verified with a friend's Macan which didn't get the option), which is very different to what the option does in the Panamera.
Another ridiculous option is the 3-zone A/C -- the A/C in the back sucks in the Macan, period, and the 3-zone A/C option does very little to fix that. Given the Panoramic roof, the poor insulation of the cabin, and the poor space in the rear, the bottom line is that your rear passengers will be uncomfortable in the summer. Definitely much more uncomfortable than in any other 5-door Porsche.
- Bucket 4: Second-rate Brakes
If you're not used to Porsche brakes, the Macan's brakes will seem perfectly adequate. They're however not Porsche grade -- my Cayenne has much better brakes; whatever the Porsche marketing guys will tell you, you *can* tell that the rear brake is floating in my situations, even in daily driving. The braking lacks both smoothness and grip, in great part because of the front brakes doing such a high % of the work. And don't get me started on the brake dust...
You may be therefore tempted to go with the PCCBs, but remember: even if PCCBs you're still stuck with one-piston in the rear, which makes the $8k+ even more overkill for a model of this price, and I can tell you from experience -- I have PCCBs in my 911 and in my Panamera -- that the PCCBs are not for everyone, especially if you don't like squealing brakes.
- Bucket 5: Second-rate cabin materials
If you've never owned a modern Porsche SUV or Sedan, you'll probably be very impressed with the Macan's cabin. It definitely looks good. But I can tell you that after 6 months of living with that cabin the amount of wear and tear was absolutely ridiculous -- I'm super careful with the cabin, but there is simply no comparison to the resilience and quality of other modern Porsches. And yes, I got the Full Leather cabin -- and the leather is good, one of the few thins that is the same quality, when used, than with other Porsches -- but any of the remaining surfaces that aren't leather (and there are many, even with the Full Leather package) are so incredibly fragile than even the dealer told me they've never had to replace so many trim pieces so quickly -- they scratch and break that easily.
Oh, and the driver's seat frame on my Macan broke within the three months of ownership -- they had to replace it. And I'm only 170 lbs.
Finally: for those wondering, yes, it does have the same built-in speedometer error (adds about 3-4%) than the Cayenne. Can't complain too much about that since, well, the Cayenne also has it, but neither my Panamera nor my 911 have ANY speedometer error -- they're 100% accurate.
So there you have it folks... why I sold my Macan.
With all the raving about the Macan, I thought I'd add some balance to the mix by giving my -- somewhat contrarian -- view; one that I feel so strongly about I actually *sold* my Macan Turbo after only 6 months (and 9,000 miles) of ownership.
The intent of this post is not to bash the Macan or make current owners feel bad -- it's to warn folks who are thinking about buying one. So if you already own one and/or have put in a non-refundable deposit, DO NOT read this. It's not for you.
OK, so to start: yes, everything everybody says about the Macan's handling is true: the car does have fantastic handling, better than any other small SUV, and quite honestly better than most cars on the market right now, period.
If you haven't ever owned a Porsche you probably will love it and keep it for many years, because it is in every way better than other small SUVs on the market.
*However*... as a lifetime Porsche fan I feel that except for the handling it fails to meet any standard Porsche has set in the past 10 years, and it is arguably the worst Porsche model right now in every single way, and not really worthy of the Porsche badge -- it should have been the 2nd generation Q5.
In other words, I would have no problem with it if it came with an Audi badge and an Audi price. But it fails to meet the standards set by its badge and premium price.
With the Executive Summary out of the way, here's how I reached that conclusion:
First of all -- let me be clear I'm excluding all the usual 1st-model-year-early-build Quality Assurance issues that are typical of most cars; meaning, when I ordered one I knew I was in for many hours at the dealership fixing things that are covered by the many campaigns early builds have. So out of my conclusions are things that my dealer did fix (and there were many of those).
So here are the issues, grouped in buckets, with the Macan's *design* -- things the dealer can't fix -- that I feel make it a 2nd rate Porsche:
- Bucket 1: Second-rate Cabin Insulation
There are many issues with the way the Macan's cabin is insulated from the outside. That is a big deal for me in a sedan or SUV (not in a coupe or convertible of course), and my standards were set by my Cayenne and Panameras. Symptoms of the problem are many and widespread (observed with not only my Macan but a few others and confirmed by Porsche upon my dealerships inquiry): constant rattling issues, air recirculation that still pulls air from the outside (yes, if you press the A/C recirc button, outside air -- and outside smells -- still get into the cabin), condensation issues around the windows, etc.
My dealer was super-patient in adding lots of extra insulation and felt tape to the doors, but c'mon, having to do that in a Porsche SUV? Really? And the air recirc problem is literally unsolvable -- it's a design flaw, as are the condensation issues.
- Bucket 2: Second-rate powertrain
OK, so the Macan has 400 hp. And the engine sounds great. But the PDK on the Macan is *not* smooth -- not Porsche smooth -- and frequently does ridiculous stuff, especially in inclines and slow speeds. And no, it doesn't get better with time, as it learns your driving style. In fact, it tends to get worse. Also, the Auto Start-Stop function is terribly clunky too (as compared to the Panamera's), which is particularly problematic since the Macan's fuel economy is terrible for today's standards (only very slightly better than the Cayenne's).
- Bucket 3: Second-rate options at first-rate prices
I loaded up my Macan based on my great experience with certain Porsche options, in particular in my Panamera: for example, I got the Burmester and the Thermal/Sound insulating glass. Total waste of money: the Burmester is only marginally better than the Bose on my Cayenne and it's in no way comparable to the Burmester on the Panamera. Not even close. The Thermal/Sound insulating glass is completely useless, it really does nothing compared to not having it (verified with a friend's Macan which didn't get the option), which is very different to what the option does in the Panamera.
Another ridiculous option is the 3-zone A/C -- the A/C in the back sucks in the Macan, period, and the 3-zone A/C option does very little to fix that. Given the Panoramic roof, the poor insulation of the cabin, and the poor space in the rear, the bottom line is that your rear passengers will be uncomfortable in the summer. Definitely much more uncomfortable than in any other 5-door Porsche.
- Bucket 4: Second-rate Brakes
If you're not used to Porsche brakes, the Macan's brakes will seem perfectly adequate. They're however not Porsche grade -- my Cayenne has much better brakes; whatever the Porsche marketing guys will tell you, you *can* tell that the rear brake is floating in my situations, even in daily driving. The braking lacks both smoothness and grip, in great part because of the front brakes doing such a high % of the work. And don't get me started on the brake dust...
You may be therefore tempted to go with the PCCBs, but remember: even if PCCBs you're still stuck with one-piston in the rear, which makes the $8k+ even more overkill for a model of this price, and I can tell you from experience -- I have PCCBs in my 911 and in my Panamera -- that the PCCBs are not for everyone, especially if you don't like squealing brakes.
- Bucket 5: Second-rate cabin materials
If you've never owned a modern Porsche SUV or Sedan, you'll probably be very impressed with the Macan's cabin. It definitely looks good. But I can tell you that after 6 months of living with that cabin the amount of wear and tear was absolutely ridiculous -- I'm super careful with the cabin, but there is simply no comparison to the resilience and quality of other modern Porsches. And yes, I got the Full Leather cabin -- and the leather is good, one of the few thins that is the same quality, when used, than with other Porsches -- but any of the remaining surfaces that aren't leather (and there are many, even with the Full Leather package) are so incredibly fragile than even the dealer told me they've never had to replace so many trim pieces so quickly -- they scratch and break that easily.
Oh, and the driver's seat frame on my Macan broke within the three months of ownership -- they had to replace it. And I'm only 170 lbs.
Finally: for those wondering, yes, it does have the same built-in speedometer error (adds about 3-4%) than the Cayenne. Can't complain too much about that since, well, the Cayenne also has it, but neither my Panamera nor my 911 have ANY speedometer error -- they're 100% accurate.
So there you have it folks... why I sold my Macan.
Even though I had custom skid plates installed [not a P option in NZ] it was damaged [PASM sensor failure] with very mild off road work. We are replacing it with a RRS SVR which can handle 100% of our roads, and still goes, and can be ordered with a full size spare. We had to create a full size spare for MT that would work front and back since they are different sizes
The MT has sworn me off CT's forever though, it handles so much better!!!! My wife likes it and it does accomplish 95% of her driving -- On the twisty NZ highways it's Like a large 911, with gravel skills and mild off road as well --
The best way to think of a MT, is as a Subaru 4wd wagon with more power, handling and ground clearance, and mild premium brand image.
Fun on the highway, just dont try to stop fast when your detector goes off....
The brakes are weak, and grabby, agreed!
The interior quality is less, but so is the price....
the PDK rocks, your car sounds faulty. Select sport plus and sport suspension, manual and go. quite fun.
The car does need 50 more HP and T, though.
As for options, many P options are rips, not new news.
I don't understand why you would commute 50 miles in this car on pavement? why dont you use the Pane TS?
all in all, I didnt get what I expected either which was a truck that smoked on the highway [got that] and could offroad decently [didnt get that], but for 80% of NZ driving it's good. After evaluating CT, CT S, G63, RR V8 and RRS SVR, decided the best package is the GT3 on pavement, the inbound GT4 on pavement and gravel, and the SVR all around.