GT4 Production Increase and No PDK
12-29-2016, 02:20 PM
#76
12-29-2016, 05:02 PM
#77
Rennlist Member
AP told me more than 2500 would be difficult due to supplier orders, etc. He couldn't see it, was the impression I was left with. Never saw or heard about the "not more than 5000" comment, but maybe he said it at one point. But it's really easy to jam someone up or judge them unfairly when going back to answers given at one time in a fluid environment while people higher up the ladder may go on to make decisions you can't anticipate. (See: LWBS production.)
My guess—and it's only that—is that PAG finally had a hot-selling late 981-1, and decided to make the most of it. Can I really blame it for that? No...but I have wondered if the 2016 Cayman, Cayman S, and/or Cayman GTS are actually rarer than the GT4.
My guess—and it's only that—is that PAG finally had a hot-selling late 981-1, and decided to make the most of it. Can I really blame it for that? No...but I have wondered if the 2016 Cayman, Cayman S, and/or Cayman GTS are actually rarer than the GT4.
12-29-2016, 05:08 PM
#78
Burning Brakes
AP told me more than 2500 would be difficult due to supplier orders, etc. He couldn't see it, was the impression I was left with. Never saw or heard about the "not more than 5000" comment, but maybe he said it at one point. But it's really easy to jam someone up or judge them unfairly when going back to answers given at one time in a fluid environment while people higher up the ladder may go on to make decisions you can't anticipate. (See: LWBS production.)
My guess—and it's only that—is that PAG finally had a hot-selling late 981-1, and decided to make the most of it. Can I really blame it for that? No...but I have wondered if the 2016 Cayman, Cayman S, and/or Cayman GTS are actually rarer than the GT4.
My guess—and it's only that—is that PAG finally had a hot-selling late 981-1, and decided to make the most of it. Can I really blame it for that? No...but I have wondered if the 2016 Cayman, Cayman S, and/or Cayman GTS are actually rarer than the GT4.
12-29-2016, 06:31 PM
#79
the latest Panorama says Cayman production #'s for 10 months at 3105. What it doesn't say is if the GT4 is included in that #. If yes then a base, S, or GTS would be rare indeed.
I question it only because for the 911 it says "ALL" next to it but not the Cayman
I question it only because for the 911 it says "ALL" next to it but not the Cayman
12-29-2016, 09:10 PM
#80
The 5000 comment from AP was back in the original EVO interview pre launch, along the lines of 'it's not a numbered limited edition but there won't be 5000'. I suspect that at the time he was telling the truth to the best of his knowledge but Porsche seem to be genuinely surprised with how popular it is.
Speaking for Aus I'd be really interested to see the numbers for all 981 Caymans, here I wouldn't be surprised if the GT4 outsold the GTS and S combined. Hell, I wouldn't tell someone they were insane if they said the GT4 was more than half of all 981 Cayman sales.
Speaking for Aus I'd be really interested to see the numbers for all 981 Caymans, here I wouldn't be surprised if the GT4 outsold the GTS and S combined. Hell, I wouldn't tell someone they were insane if they said the GT4 was more than half of all 981 Cayman sales.
12-30-2016, 05:30 PM
#82
Instructor
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I believe your statement is probably correct in re rarest being the Spyder. However, used Spyders do not command the premium that used GT4s do, for whatever reason. Still, I think the gentlemen with two Spyders in another thread will be very pleased some day...
12-30-2016, 07:23 PM
#83
The Spyder's value may improve depending on what engine goes into the 981.2/718 Spyder... That said, the GT4's premium may not be as high if the 981.2 GT4 ends up with some variation of the GT3 engine or even an X51 version of the current engine.
that said, the highest value is obtained by those who are driving and enjoying their cars
that said, the highest value is obtained by those who are driving and enjoying their cars
12-30-2016, 07:42 PM
#84
AP told me more than 2500 would be difficult due to supplier orders, etc.
He couldn't see it, was the impression I was left with. Never saw or heard
about the "not more than 5000" comment, but maybe he said it at one
point. But it's really easy to jam someone up or judge them unfairly
when going back to answers given at one time in a fluid environment
while people higher up the ladder may go on to make decisions you
can't anticipate. (See: LWBS production.)
My guess—and it's only that—is that PAG finally had a hot-selling
late 981-1, and decided to make the most of it. Can I really blame it for
that? No...but I have wondered if the 2016 Cayman, Cayman S, and/or
Cayman GTS are actually rarer than the GT4.
He couldn't see it, was the impression I was left with. Never saw or heard
about the "not more than 5000" comment, but maybe he said it at one
point. But it's really easy to jam someone up or judge them unfairly
when going back to answers given at one time in a fluid environment
while people higher up the ladder may go on to make decisions you
can't anticipate. (See: LWBS production.)
My guess—and it's only that—is that PAG finally had a hot-selling
late 981-1, and decided to make the most of it. Can I really blame it for
that? No...but I have wondered if the 2016 Cayman, Cayman S, and/or
Cayman GTS are actually rarer than the GT4.
have a history at Porsche. Perhaps the most famous case involved the
1973 911 RS, where they were to initially build 500 'light weight' units
to meet Group 4 Special gt racing category. And to the surprise of their
marketing department, demand exceeded expectations & eventually
Porsche build between 1560 & 1580 units (both LW & Touring versions)!
Quite frankly, the current extension run of a Porsche production model
that I find 'unusual' is for the 991 .1 gt3 RS. I have never seen anything
like this before! And .1 gt3 RS numbers I think now far out number the
base number of .1 991 gt3s built. It might be a combination of factors -
the VW Group's need for cash flow to mitigate the growing expense of
the Dieselgate man-made disaster & the restricted numbers of 911R
that they agreed to built. The latter pissed-off so many loyal & affluent
Porsche customers (especially in the US where the 918 VIP program
of first-right-of-refusal soaked up almost the entire 911R allocation to
this market) that PAG might have decided to keep the flow of gt3 RS's
going longer than anticipated to satisfy the world's demand for at least
that ONE high-performance Porsche model. It was meant to take the
sting for many of not being able to get a 911R.
I personally think that Porsche will come to the conclusion, if they
haven't already done so, that the limited number of 911R (a total
of only 991 examples worldwide) was a major marketing 'mistake'
& they should NOT have made that model a 'Limited Edition'. I do
not think the German marketing wizards at PAG truly understood
how the 918 VIP program has 'unbalanced' the traditional ways their
loyal & long-standing non-918 customers dealt/interfaced with their
local US P-dealers. In the face of the reality of the 918 VIP program
(which was only implemented in the US & not anywhere else in the
world) Porsche needs to adjust their thinking about Limited Editions
& UNDERSTAND how small production numbers will distort the
market, especially here in the United States. The artificial/arbitrary
limitation of a very desirable model (e.g. the 911R) only works to
create an artificial market where speculation takes root & creates a
secondary market for the model that doesn't add a Euro to Porsche's
bottom-line profitability. Instead, it allows dealers & flippers to profit
...and leaves both PAG P&L and many of their loyal customers totally
cold & out of the picture. I don't fault the P-dealers & 918 VIP for
taking advantage of a situation THEY didn't create in the first place.
They are reacting to a program set in place by Porsche to stimulate
sales of the 918 when that effort was in the doldrums. But if truth
be told, Porsche should have better predicted how the 918 VIP
program was going to effect sales of limited editions and adjust
for it!
So let me be very specific re: 911R. I wish PAG would have done
better market research & gauge the demand for the 911R to realistic
levels....then supplied the market with that model in numbers like
they are putting out of the .1 991 gt3 RS! I am well aware of the
coordination it takes to get subcontractors to supply all the special
parts that are unique to the 911R. But German auto supply industry
has the ability to adapt to changing demand. We saw that with the
Single Mass Flywheel on the 911R. Initially we were told that option
would cause delay production until September/October 2016. Yet
when the orders came in & PAG realized the majority of 911R owners
were ordering that option, they negotiated an increase supply of the
SMF which allowed them to start producing cars with that option in
early Summer.
***
In closing, I hope that Porsche adjust its production to the new
reality of the market, especially in the United States after the
introduction of their 918 VIP program. But I am not particularly
hopeful. I have seen them not fully understand demand for PTS,
then tried to obfuscate the program to artificially lower that demand!
Instead, they should take advantage of the higher interest in
Paint-to-Sample & the increase demand (some of which we have
generated here at Rennlist free of charge to them)..and then
satisfy that PTS demand.
Perhaps it's my educational background at Wharton, but I think
Porsche needs to re-think some of its management decisions in
order to make sure they don't make things worse for many of
their longstanding customer here in the United States.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
12-31-2016, 12:33 AM
#85
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
12-31-2016, 03:02 AM
#86
Great post Eduardo. 
Porsche has a duty to their stakeholders to maximize shareholder value via higher sales/profit/free cash flow first. That means build to demand and extract every dollar possible from all cars produced. 
Porsche has a duty to their stakeholders to maximize shareholder value via higher sales/profit/free cash flow first. That means build to demand and extract every dollar possible from all cars produced.
12-31-2016, 11:02 AM
#87
Race Director
I have a feeling they will make it up with the 991.2 GT3. i bet they will make enough to come close to satisfying demand but lets just hope the dealers behave
12-31-2016, 11:28 AM
#88
Drifting
I did have my Black car up in Denver yesterday and came across a 911R on I25.
12-31-2016, 01:18 PM
#89
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Eduardo: Great post! +1 on all points made. It can be very frustrating to be a (non-918-owning) Porsche customer these days. The 918 VIP program might have been effective at selling out the full production of the 918, but the overall impact on the market for Porsche's sports cars has not been to PAG's advantage.
12-31-2016, 04:31 PM
#90
In some ways I really feel stupid not buying a 918 and parking it in a barn somewhere just to not have to deal with all this BS. Hard to love a brand when you can't buy its products I agree. I'm not in love with the way the dealers work either. A line is a line is a line, it's not a norwegian line (what I call the Ski-funnel type lines they have over there). If you give money to hold a place in line, then you ought to have that place in line. My experience so far is that there is no such thing as a line until the dealer is desperate to sell a car.