2010 GT3 CL recall, a NEW recall
#167
Race Car
Thread Starter
Info with VIN range !
Good reading material here .....
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...2V558-4048.pdf
More reading although the top link is the important parts.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...2V558-2959.pdf
I think this should answer most of the questions that have been asked.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...2V558-4048.pdf
More reading although the top link is the important parts.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...2V558-2959.pdf
I think this should answer most of the questions that have been asked.
#168
Race Car
Thread Starter
Maybe try calling the phone contact phone # and name at the end of this letter if you still don't have any satisfaction. Maybe, I am hoping, they will look at your case with a little more consideration. It might also help if you fall within that VIN range which is now publicized in this letter.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...2V558-4048.pdf
Let us know the final outcome regarding your CL's, and Porsche's reasoning on your car in light of this recall.
Hope this info helps you,
Happy Holidays,
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...2V558-4048.pdf
Let us know the final outcome regarding your CL's, and Porsche's reasoning on your car in light of this recall.
Hope this info helps you,
Happy Holidays,
I have been working with Porsche for 6 months after my failure with no luck, effectively they told me you were on a track so pound sand (this is a 2010 GT3). Should be interesting to see how this all plays out. Are they going to recall the 3 non-failed center locks and have me buy the parts for the failed one or maybe they will shear the new one to make it match what is on the car now. ;-)
BTW, the best I could get out of Porsche was the senior customer care person and a form letter, I got the FTM's name but they would not allow me to speak/communicate with him after requesting it several times.
Needless to say my faith in Porsche to do the right thing is pretty low mainly because of months of run around and just plain poor customer support (everyone I spoke could never do anything to resolve any issue they simply restated a company line and they effectively refused to make anyone who could make a decision available or have any meaningful discussion).... and now they seem to recalling the exact part which failed. Go figure.
BTW, the best I could get out of Porsche was the senior customer care person and a form letter, I got the FTM's name but they would not allow me to speak/communicate with him after requesting it several times.
Needless to say my faith in Porsche to do the right thing is pretty low mainly because of months of run around and just plain poor customer support (everyone I spoke could never do anything to resolve any issue they simply restated a company line and they effectively refused to make anyone who could make a decision available or have any meaningful discussion).... and now they seem to recalling the exact part which failed. Go figure.
#169
Good reading material here .....
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...2V558-4048.pdf
More reading although the top link is the important parts.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...2V558-2959.pdf
I think this should answer most of the questions that have been asked.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...2V558-4048.pdf
More reading although the top link is the important parts.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...2V558-2959.pdf
I think this should answer most of the questions that have been asked.
#170
Rennlist Member
Visited the dealer today to find out why I have not received recall notification... My car was built during the stated build dates...
As it stands, cars that had their hubs replaced under the earlier campaign AB01, now have the upgraded hubs fitted and will NOT have their hubs replaced again. So basically, if they changed your hubs last year and you have been torquing to 600Nm, as far as they are concerned you are fine and start logging your track kilometers.
This campaign is to pick up all the guys who own cars in the specified build period and who didn't have their hubs replaced with the upspec part under AB01...
As for the log book requirements, I don't know when they are going to notify the rest of us but it is very real...
Based on "track kilometers" logged:
Every 7000km: Rear hubs, bearings and CL nuts (approx AUS$3500 parts plus labour)
Every 14000km additionally to above: Rear wheel carriers (bearing housings), front hubs and bearings (Approx AUS$6250 parts plus labour PLUS cost of rears above which need to be repeated!!! That is $10k parts plus labour)
Every 28000km additional to above: Front wheel carriers (bearing housings)- (Approx AUS$8000 for the 2 carriers plus labour PLUS the cost of the 14k km maintenance... That is AUS$18000 for parts plus labour)!!!
As somebody senior pointed out upon reading these requirements, this is Porsche's f%*k up and they should have the decency to either (i) cover these costs and greatly reduced prices (ii) offer a free conversion to 5 lug for those intent on tracking and a subsidised set of wheels (iii) Redesign the hub and bolt to work within the current wheels fitted and recall all cars for a new fitout that has realistic service life (30-50k km etc excluding bearings which are wear and tear items)...
EVERYBODY there felt that it was ridiculous that the cost of such a grave mistakeon their part should be passed onto the customer like this and that we should start thinking about writing letters to PAG, PCNA, PCA etc to voice our dissatisfaction with their handling of the whole situation. Until Porsche introduced "technology" into the wheel fitting system, the most the motorsport team would see with previous generations of GT cars was a noisy bearing which is a wear item.
As it stands, cars that had their hubs replaced under the earlier campaign AB01, now have the upgraded hubs fitted and will NOT have their hubs replaced again. So basically, if they changed your hubs last year and you have been torquing to 600Nm, as far as they are concerned you are fine and start logging your track kilometers.
This campaign is to pick up all the guys who own cars in the specified build period and who didn't have their hubs replaced with the upspec part under AB01...
As for the log book requirements, I don't know when they are going to notify the rest of us but it is very real...
Based on "track kilometers" logged:
Every 7000km: Rear hubs, bearings and CL nuts (approx AUS$3500 parts plus labour)
Every 14000km additionally to above: Rear wheel carriers (bearing housings), front hubs and bearings (Approx AUS$6250 parts plus labour PLUS cost of rears above which need to be repeated!!! That is $10k parts plus labour)
Every 28000km additional to above: Front wheel carriers (bearing housings)- (Approx AUS$8000 for the 2 carriers plus labour PLUS the cost of the 14k km maintenance... That is AUS$18000 for parts plus labour)!!!
As somebody senior pointed out upon reading these requirements, this is Porsche's f%*k up and they should have the decency to either (i) cover these costs and greatly reduced prices (ii) offer a free conversion to 5 lug for those intent on tracking and a subsidised set of wheels (iii) Redesign the hub and bolt to work within the current wheels fitted and recall all cars for a new fitout that has realistic service life (30-50k km etc excluding bearings which are wear and tear items)...
EVERYBODY there felt that it was ridiculous that the cost of such a grave mistakeon their part should be passed onto the customer like this and that we should start thinking about writing letters to PAG, PCNA, PCA etc to voice our dissatisfaction with their handling of the whole situation. Until Porsche introduced "technology" into the wheel fitting system, the most the motorsport team would see with previous generations of GT cars was a noisy bearing which is a wear item.
#171
Race Car
Thread Starter
Thanks. Good read. The details indicate that the "updated maintenance" will just be more frequent re-torquing of the CL nut if driven under track conditions. Probably means CL nut torque needs to be checked prior to every event. Hmmm....I seem to recall checking wheel lug torque being on every standard DE event inspection form.
Here is one of Porsche Motorsports tech bulletins, complete with recommendations, for their Race Cup car GT3's before Daytona. Note it has sections specific to CL, wheel hubs, uprights, etc etc. Most GT3's these days with CL's and even without, should have similar schedules for misc suspension parts.
#172
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
^ right on. i always wonder why my running cost was much higher than most others running GT3 street cars. turns out not many ppl replace wheel bearing, hub, axle, wheel studs, wheels on a regular basis.
#173
Instructor
VIN number is squarely in the middle of the recall. Will try calling the porsche recall person, I have a feeling I will get shuffled back to the same Don Thomas who is very happy to send me the same letter denying any coverage and any help repairing the vehicle.
Note, I now have real solid estimates on repair costs, about $40K. Might come in less but I suspect when all is said and done it will be about that number of the car to be as good or better than before.
Also, Porsche is not telling me how they are going to deal with my car for the recall since it is a bit broken (hell if I am going to put new replacement parts on just so Porsche can replace them effectively). So the question boils done to what condition can the car be in prior to the recall. No answer on that.
Note, I now have real solid estimates on repair costs, about $40K. Might come in less but I suspect when all is said and done it will be about that number of the car to be as good or better than before.
Also, Porsche is not telling me how they are going to deal with my car for the recall since it is a bit broken (hell if I am going to put new replacement parts on just so Porsche can replace them effectively). So the question boils done to what condition can the car be in prior to the recall. No answer on that.
Maybe try calling the phone contact phone # and name at the end of this letter if you still don't have any satisfaction. Maybe, I am hoping, they will look at your case with a little more consideration. It might also help if you fall within that VIN range which is now publicized in this letter.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...2V558-4048.pdf
Let us know the final outcome regarding your CL's, and Porsche's reasoning on your car in light of this recall.
Hope this info helps you,
Happy Holidays,
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...2V558-4048.pdf
Let us know the final outcome regarding your CL's, and Porsche's reasoning on your car in light of this recall.
Hope this info helps you,
Happy Holidays,
#174
Visited the dealer today to find out why I have not received recall notification... My car was built during the stated build dates...
As it stands, cars that had their hubs replaced under the earlier campaign AB01, now have the upgraded hubs fitted and will NOT have their hubs replaced again. So basically, if they changed your hubs last year and you have been torquing to 600Nm, as far as they are concerned you are fine and start logging your track kilometers.
This campaign is to pick up all the guys who own cars in the specified build period and who didn't have their hubs replaced with the upspec part under AB01...
As for the log book requirements, I don't know when they are going to notify the rest of us but it is very real...
Based on "track kilometers" logged:
Every 7000km: Rear hubs, bearings and CL nuts (approx AUS$3500 parts plus labour)
Every 14000km additionally to above: Rear wheel carriers (bearing housings), front hubs and bearings (Approx AUS$6250 parts plus labour PLUS cost of rears above which need to be repeated!!! That is $10k parts plus labour)
Every 28000km additional to above: Front wheel carriers (bearing housings)- (Approx AUS$8000 for the 2 carriers plus labour PLUS the cost of the 14k km maintenance... That is AUS$18000 for parts plus labour)!!!
As somebody senior pointed out upon reading these requirements, this is Porsche's f%*k up and they should have the decency to either (i) cover these costs and greatly reduced prices (ii) offer a free conversion to 5 lug for those intent on tracking and a subsidised set of wheels (iii) Redesign the hub and bolt to work within the current wheels fitted and recall all cars for a new fitout that has realistic service life (30-50k km etc excluding bearings which are wear and tear items)...
EVERYBODY there felt that it was ridiculous that the cost of such a grave mistakeon their part should be passed onto the customer like this and that we should start thinking about writing letters to PAG, PCNA, PCA etc to voice our dissatisfaction with their handling of the whole situation. Until Porsche introduced "technology" into the wheel fitting system, the most the motorsport team would see with previous generations of GT cars was a noisy bearing which is a wear item.
As it stands, cars that had their hubs replaced under the earlier campaign AB01, now have the upgraded hubs fitted and will NOT have their hubs replaced again. So basically, if they changed your hubs last year and you have been torquing to 600Nm, as far as they are concerned you are fine and start logging your track kilometers.
This campaign is to pick up all the guys who own cars in the specified build period and who didn't have their hubs replaced with the upspec part under AB01...
As for the log book requirements, I don't know when they are going to notify the rest of us but it is very real...
Based on "track kilometers" logged:
Every 7000km: Rear hubs, bearings and CL nuts (approx AUS$3500 parts plus labour)
Every 14000km additionally to above: Rear wheel carriers (bearing housings), front hubs and bearings (Approx AUS$6250 parts plus labour PLUS cost of rears above which need to be repeated!!! That is $10k parts plus labour)
Every 28000km additional to above: Front wheel carriers (bearing housings)- (Approx AUS$8000 for the 2 carriers plus labour PLUS the cost of the 14k km maintenance... That is AUS$18000 for parts plus labour)!!!
As somebody senior pointed out upon reading these requirements, this is Porsche's f%*k up and they should have the decency to either (i) cover these costs and greatly reduced prices (ii) offer a free conversion to 5 lug for those intent on tracking and a subsidised set of wheels (iii) Redesign the hub and bolt to work within the current wheels fitted and recall all cars for a new fitout that has realistic service life (30-50k km etc excluding bearings which are wear and tear items)...
EVERYBODY there felt that it was ridiculous that the cost of such a grave mistakeon their part should be passed onto the customer like this and that we should start thinking about writing letters to PAG, PCNA, PCA etc to voice our dissatisfaction with their handling of the whole situation. Until Porsche introduced "technology" into the wheel fitting system, the most the motorsport team would see with previous generations of GT cars was a noisy bearing which is a wear item.
#175
Three Wheelin'
is this a exact replacement of existing bearings and hubs or will it be newly designed parts? im thinking Porsche is covering their rears by replacing them so that at least they are saying we did something. if it is nature of center lock design that is flawed to begin with, Porsche made a huge mistake by putting these on GT/Turbo cars instead leaving them as 5 lugs. Yes I understand if you use them under heavy track conditions, one should replace them as normal wear and tear maintenance but tradionally 5 lug design in past Porsche didnt have these issues.
#176
Rennlist Member
The we ****ed up but you must pay policy does not sit well with me... Especially when all of a sudden the maintenance costs make servicing a Ferrari like servicing a Toyota Corolla by comparison!!! Not cool!
is this a exact replacement of existing bearings and hubs or will it be newly designed parts? im thinking Porsche is covering their rears by replacing them so that at least they are saying we did something. if it is nature of center lock design that is flawed to begin with, Porsche made a huge mistake by putting these on GT/Turbo cars instead leaving them as 5 lugs. Yes I understand if you use them under heavy track conditions, one should replace them as normal wear and tear maintenance but tradionally 5 lug design in past Porsche didnt have these issues.
As pointed out by someone at the dealership today, cup cars have CLs to allow for fast wheel changes in racing and timing out plus maintenance are a given. Your average customer does not need rapid wheel changes, nor was this system able to provide that so they should never had put racing systems (ie CLs) on street cars... A recipe for disaster when you decide to fix something that was never broken, get it wrong then don't want to admit error and pay to do good by customers! All this talk of cars now needing to be maintained like race cars because they are so fast is bull**** because 5 lug wheels have not been lost on GT cars in the past 10 years and they've been driven just as hard!!!
Last edited by 911rox; 12-19-2012 at 08:14 AM. Reason: spelling errors
#177
Rennlist Member
VIN number is squarely in the middle of the recall. Will try calling the porsche recall person, I have a feeling I will get shuffled back to the same Don Thomas who is very happy to send me the same letter denying any coverage and any help repairing the vehicle.
Note, I now have real solid estimates on repair costs, about $40K. Might come in less but I suspect when all is said and done it will be about that number of the car to be as good or better than before.
Also, Porsche is not telling me how they are going to deal with my car for the recall since it is a bit broken (hell if I am going to put new replacement parts on just so Porsche can replace them effectively). So the question boils done to what condition can the car be in prior to the recall. No answer on that.
Note, I now have real solid estimates on repair costs, about $40K. Might come in less but I suspect when all is said and done it will be about that number of the car to be as good or better than before.
Also, Porsche is not telling me how they are going to deal with my car for the recall since it is a bit broken (hell if I am going to put new replacement parts on just so Porsche can replace them effectively). So the question boils done to what condition can the car be in prior to the recall. No answer on that.
#178
as least this what is says on http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...2V558-4048.pdf
#179
Rennlist Member
AB01 was only about the centre lock wheel bolt, not hubs ..
as least this what is says on http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...2V558-4048.pdf
as least this what is says on http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...2V558-4048.pdf
My hubs were done... Other guys here had rotors, wheels hubs replaced also...
ps. That letter suggests we were advised about service intervals during the AB01 campaign. THat is rubbish! We were told how to grease bolts and how to torque them off the ground. To date I have not seen any documentation from Porsche on the new proposed service intervals except for on the campain handout I was given at the dealership today... Thats all just lies from Porsche to the authorities to justify it's position. Maybe some litigation would remind them of the facts and their shortcomings in handling the situation....
#180
Ouch. Tracking a GT3 just got a whole lot more expensive. Rear carriers/hubs/bearings/nuts and front hubs/bearings/nuts every 8400 miles. What is that? $15,000? Maybe $20,000? Whewwwww