Madturk

I've been thinking about buying a 80's 911 for a while. Prices seem stupid. I started to think maybe get a 964 instead. Prices also stupid. I thought bump both and get 993 which I love. Prices are crazy stupid.
So, now I've been thinking 997 gt3. Some are out there for around $70-75k. I've driven one a few years ago and holy mother what a car. But, I'm thinking I won't be tracking the car for more than 10 times a year. Maybe I can buy a 997 S and spend some money on it. I'm seeing 997's for $35-40k. Is the gt3 worth the extra $45-50k?
I haven't seen many modded 997's. What's possible with $15-20k?
If I was to spend about $20k on a 997 and get rid of some of the weight how would it compare to the gt3?
Isn't the gt3 just a light weight moded 997?
Ok, I know the answer to that.
Also, 6mt or pdk for a 2005-2007 997?
Thoughts??
Thanks guys

DC911S

No, totally different engine and suspension, and all the bits that go along with it. Getting a 40K 997 and putting 20K on it, still won't make it a GT3. But for that you can get things done to add power, LSD, change the suspension, and take the rear seats out. no PDK until 2009. BTW. Get a S with a X51 kit and aero package, adda few mods…..then call it a day.

Dennis C

As mentioned above, the GT3 has a different engine, different suspension, different brakes, and more. If you're doing that much track time, then get the GT3! It's also more likely to hold value and it is really a special, rare car.

Hella-Buggin'

If a track car is your focus, Gt3 hands down. Personally, I have a c2s and track it about 8 times a year and have decided to just keep it and not go for a gt3. My car has rear seats for the kids which allows me to take it on more weekend trips. It's also more compliant in the bad Bay Area roads. I have fun tracking it am less concerned about stuffing it into a wall. I don't plan on it but it happens. I've done a few mods and have fun. I'm far from as fast as the car is. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have one but not for the cost. I have other things to accomplish in life with the $40k difference. Your situation may be different. My good buddy had a nice gt3 for sale in your price range. I've stared at the *** end of this car more than I care to admit.

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892448&goto=newpost

Madturk

I won't track it more 10 times/year for sure. I have friends that might even be able to buy me a lightly damaged car for cheap($20k maybe). By the time it's ready for the road it maybe at $30k with the gr3 look. I could careless about resale value. I do not mind driving a Frankenstein as long as it's on the hard edge. I could careless about things like iPod connectors, navigation, comfort seats etc. I'll probably get some bucket seats and take the back seats and extras out anyways. So, if the car ended up $30k road ready and if I had a budget of $20k more what should I expect?
I know it won't be a gt3 or have the resale value but at that point it'll be about $30k cheaper than a gt3. Like someone said I could use the $30k else where as this car is not the only thing in my life. If money was no option is get the gt3 without blinking.

jhbrennan

Ambitious thinking - I'd go GT3 option if you can - the Mezger engine is tried and true. BTW, it's "I couldn't care less" not "I could care less". Good luck.

Madturk

Thank you for the lesson in grammar.
So, couldn't care less for the future value. What mods can be done with a $20k budget?

DC911S

well, full FVD exhaust and cats……tune……GT3 TB and IDP plenum……GT3 sway bars and end links……GT3 LCAs and associated bits…..Bilstein PSS16 shocks and struts and monoballs……..and labor to do it all, your close to 20K….buy some bits used and its cheaper…...

Madturk

Thank you DC911S. At that point what kind of performance should I expect from such car?

Petza914

Madturk - good to see you over on this forum as well. I think I have one of the most heavily modded 997s on Rennlist and would we happy to talk with you about what I've done to my car and what each mod achieved, however I don't track it - probably a shame as it would likely be a track monster, but it's too nice in my opinion - it does do some quik mountain runs though

Mods include:

• RUF R-Kompressor Supercharger Kit (+100 HP)
• Complete Fabspeed Valvetronic Exhuast (Headers, 200 cell X cats, Mufflers - custom exhaust pipes to marry up wiith special through bumper RUF tips)
• Bilstein B16 Damptronics Suspension
• Complete RSS Tarmac Series Stage 2 Suspension (LCAs, Rear Dog Bones, Front & Rear Toe Steer Kit, Adjustable Sway Bars (powdercoated Bilstein blue), Drop Links, Tarret Monoball Top Mounts
• TPC Dynamic Suspension Control Module (DSC)
• RSS Semi-solid Motor Mounts
• MantisSport 2L Deep Sump with Internal Baffle & Windage Tray
• Cargraphic AirLift Noselift System (Installed an Optima battery to have space for the upgraded external Compressor & Control Box for the AirLift Kit, while still able to hide everything under the factory trim panels)
• Have 2 sets of wheels: Champion RS171s fully polished with clear powdercoat & ADV.1 ADV5 in a brushed with clear finish, both running Nitto Invo tires (original RUF wheels had been chromed & were too heavy)
• DCT Carbon Steering wheel with multifunction buttons
• and I'm sure there's probably some more that I can't remember - there are actually more mods, but they have to do with interior trim and aesthetics so I deleted them from the list since you weren't interesated in that type in this thread.

If you can afford the GT3, that's the way to go and here's why...the Mezger engine in the GT3 is derived from a true race engine and that's what's in the GT3 (Turbo too) but not the same engine that's in the 997.1 cars so you have to be concerned about the IMS bearing in the non race engines. According to Jake Raby, the authroity on the IMS subject, the smaller IMS in the 996s and some of the 2005 997s is OK at the higher RPMs you see with a track car, but not so much the lower RPMs of a street car. The larger IMS in some of the 2005s and through 2008 is the opposite, where it holds up very well in street driven cars, but not as well in track driven cars. Starting in 2009 with the 997.2 direct injection engines, the 997 is no longer an issue.

If you really want a good track car, go either GT3 or 997.2 and the .2 series is when the PDK transmission was also introduced, which is faster on the track than a 6MT. I don't personally like the paddle shift driving experience, but again, I don't track my car - if I did, I might have a different view of PDK or would at least be willing to compromise my street driving enjoyment for better track performance.

I have a spreadsheet where I track all the $s spent on my cars so I can let you know what certain mods cost. However, in many cases, I acquired a lot of what's installed 2nd hand from the Rennlist Marketplace so some of my pricing info will be lower than what you'd spend if buying new.

There are photo gallery links in my signature for my different cars, although there may not be a lot of the hardware upgrade shots, but here are a few.

alexb76

You have NOT answered the real question, is this a TRACK car? or a daily car that will be tracked? If the former, GT3, if the latter, C2S.

With either car, no mods are really necessary, as Porsches are typically optimized as they come. Areas for improvement on C2S [for track] could the following (in no particular order):

1. The brakes (start with pads), then could find a GT3 or larger brakes
2. Suspension (Bilstein), or just get the TPC mod (changes the dynamics of PASM)
3. 3rd radiator [for hot lap days]
4. LSD?
5. Larger oil sump
6. Stickier tiers
7. Lighter wheels
8. Exhaust/Tune
9. Swaybars
10. Whatever else you may find...

Now, having said all of that, I think the amount of money into the above could be better invested in doing more track days and would have a higher return on investment that marginal perfomrnace improvement. I have a STOCK C4S, I track 4-5 times a year, and I really can't pull 100% performance of that car, it's a lot more capable than I am basicaly, what I can gather from your posts, you'd probably similar. Hence, I suggest to start with a Carrera, see how you like it on the track, learn how to best drive a 997 and if you REALLY wanted more power, performance then go for the GT3 later.

SpeedyD

Tracking 10x per year is actually a good amount.

I would go GT3.

semicycler

GT3 is the obvious answer. Best power, handling and braking.

The best performance for the money tradeoff in my opinion would be a 6MT 997.1 with aerokit or other usable rear wing. Then spend upwards of $8K or so to get the suspension handling like a GT3 (LCA's, monoballs, solid pucks, sways, Damptronics w/corner balancing, track alignment, TPC box, dog bones, etc.). High flow cats and a tune help for power, maybe plenum and GT3 throttle body too. Racing brake pads are a must, maybe go for larger brakes down the line.

I vote for the 997 with spending about half of your $20K upgrade budget only. Anything beyond this is diminishing returns, pointing towards a GT3 instead.

stumil

Do you need the rear seats? If not, how about a Cayman R? Great for street and track, and has some of the feel of a GT3 (see this month's edition of Porsche Excellence). More for sale than usual as the guys taking delivery of GT4's are selling.

snake eyes

Ahem,
Curve ball

Any 997.2 wide body car will do just fine at the track.
The DFI 9A1 engine in the 997.2 is track tested and proven.

Just Ask the Tudor Rum Bum Racing Team who are currently fighting to lead the championship (and have won it with a 997.2 Aero Kit)


or BGB who have WON the Tudor Championship with the DFI engine


As also mentioned (PDK is quicker at the track than 6spd) and it is not just by a little. You have to be a professional driver to keep up with it.

Now the GT3 will hold its value better and be quicker out of the box...(if the driver is really good)
Once again PDK is really crazy fast.... No wonder the 991 GT3 comes only with PDK II