Opinion on negotiation
10-21-2016, 10:23 PM
#31
****ed up in what way?
10-21-2016, 10:49 PM
#32
10-21-2016, 11:23 PM
#33
RL Community Team
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I'm sure he will be fine.
Glass is half full, right.
I otoh saw a CPO car that had all 4 corners f-ed up today.
That wasn't disclosed in the ad. I saw this and believed it. A dealer would never stretch the truth, right?
"This wonderful Porsche is one of the most sought after used vehicles on the market because it NEVER lets owners down."
I'm in the tristate area, so I should expect truth in advertising, right.
Glass is half full, right.
I otoh saw a CPO car that had all 4 corners f-ed up today.
That wasn't disclosed in the ad. I saw this and believed it. A dealer would never stretch the truth, right?
"This wonderful Porsche is one of the most sought after used vehicles on the market because it NEVER lets owners down."
I'm in the tristate area, so I should expect truth in advertising, right.
http://www.dealerrater.com/dealer/Pa...-review-39485/
10-23-2016, 12:13 AM
#34
Park Place in Dallas isn't just any dealer. They are a Porsche Dealership and considered to be one of the very best in the USA and the world. They do not screw over their customers.
http://www.dealerrater.com/dealer/Pa...-review-39485/
http://www.dealerrater.com/dealer/Pa...-review-39485/
With comparable reviews on the site you reference.
Never used Park Place, although the green car has a sticker from there. I think they sold it new.
My point was that no matter who is selling it you should verify for yourself.
10-23-2016, 09:41 AM
#36
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Are they on this list like Park Place is?
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...or-2016-a.html
I am pretty sure the OP has just put a deposit on this vehicle with the deal to be completed on inspection. That was his stated plan.
Last edited by Carlo_Carrera; 10-23-2016 at 10:10 AM.
10-23-2016, 12:54 PM
#37
Sigh.
Let me try again using smaller words.
The OP was dealing with a "Porsche dealer" (like that makes them special in some way) that refused to countenance a PPI on a used vehicle and is selling same with out of date tires. At least.
I recommended that he check the car out.
I used an example based on my own - same day - experience at a "Porsche dealer", looking at a CPO vehicle. Those, one would hope, have been inspected.
This particular one needed help. Despite it being a CPO vehicle. I would never have known that without looking at it personally.
I don't care if the dealer serenades me and strews rose petals in my path as I walk in. I'm still going to look at a used car before I buy it. I suggested that the OP do the same. That's all.
Do you work for Park Place? I've never seen anyone defend a car dealer quite as aggressively before. Especially at the mere suggestion that a customer verify something.
Let me try again using smaller words.
The OP was dealing with a "Porsche dealer" (like that makes them special in some way) that refused to countenance a PPI on a used vehicle and is selling same with out of date tires. At least.
I recommended that he check the car out.
I used an example based on my own - same day - experience at a "Porsche dealer", looking at a CPO vehicle. Those, one would hope, have been inspected.
This particular one needed help. Despite it being a CPO vehicle. I would never have known that without looking at it personally.
I don't care if the dealer serenades me and strews rose petals in my path as I walk in. I'm still going to look at a used car before I buy it. I suggested that the OP do the same. That's all.
Do you work for Park Place? I've never seen anyone defend a car dealer quite as aggressively before. Especially at the mere suggestion that a customer verify something.
10-23-2016, 01:46 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thank you for all of the excellent advice and concern. As mentioned in prior posts With this car I feel comfortable with the dealership and I feel I've done a level of due diligence that I am comfortable with.They are also the dealer who sold the car twice, once when it was new and again to the second owner. They have service records for the car as down to the GT3 wheel swap which they did in 08'. The salesperson took me around the car with FaceTime and I had a friend of a friend look at it. I'm getting an inspection from them on Monday. I asked and they ran a DME report for me.
I have purchased used cars with and without a PPI. When I bought my 993 I found it locallly and had a highly recommended independent pact shop do a PPI they missed a lot of stuff. Then stuff also broke in the year after I've owned it, with used car stuff happens. There's nothing that says a through PPI would come up clean only to face minor/major issues after a few hundred or thousand miles, such is the risk with a used car, let alone a used Porsche. The tires were factored into the deal. I also factored in that the 30knservoce was due in 1000 miles. The car has two keys, all manuals and tools, floor mats, etc.
If by any means someone is local to the Dallas area and wants do a rennfax I'll be appreciative and glad to set it up for a second opinion.
I have purchased used cars with and without a PPI. When I bought my 993 I found it locallly and had a highly recommended independent pact shop do a PPI they missed a lot of stuff. Then stuff also broke in the year after I've owned it, with used car stuff happens. There's nothing that says a through PPI would come up clean only to face minor/major issues after a few hundred or thousand miles, such is the risk with a used car, let alone a used Porsche. The tires were factored into the deal. I also factored in that the 30knservoce was due in 1000 miles. The car has two keys, all manuals and tools, floor mats, etc.
If by any means someone is local to the Dallas area and wants do a rennfax I'll be appreciative and glad to set it up for a second opinion.
Last edited by Brig993; 10-23-2016 at 02:18 PM.
10-23-2016, 04:54 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Well, I learned today that Dallas is in the southeastern part of the country. 
I agree with Alan - verify. I'm shocked that they would sell a car at all with outdated tires and a service due (especially at that price point). That's something that a buy here-pay here car lot would do.
Also, if you think Park Place won't screw you over to make a buck, think again. I know first hand. About 6 months ago, a friend from KCRPCA bought a 40th AE 996 from their sister dealership in Plano (suburban Dallas) - Park Place Jaguar. After they made a deal with him and took his credit card for a deposit on a non-contingent deal (cash deal with no PPI request), they decided to sell it to someone else who was local. The friend asked me to try to persuade them to honor the deal with him. It got escalated to the general manager who admitted everything and then to their legal counsel who said, in a nutshell, "I don't care, sue us." The friend decided to just drop it, so in the end they were able to successfully hose him over with no ramifications.
FWIW, I tend to side with the dealer in disputes. I have had a dealer's license since 2001 and have a lot of friends, family and clients who are dealers. Some of the stuff people try to pull to take advantage of dealers is crazy. In this case, though, the dealership was wrong - and admitted it. They just knew litigation costs made it impossible for the customer to prevail. Don't blindly trust them. They may do right by you - but only if it's convenient and the MOST profitable option for them.
I can tell you for 100% certain that your credit card deposit means absolutely nothing to them.
I agree with Alan - verify. I'm shocked that they would sell a car at all with outdated tires and a service due (especially at that price point). That's something that a buy here-pay here car lot would do.
Also, if you think Park Place won't screw you over to make a buck, think again. I know first hand. About 6 months ago, a friend from KCRPCA bought a 40th AE 996 from their sister dealership in Plano (suburban Dallas) - Park Place Jaguar. After they made a deal with him and took his credit card for a deposit on a non-contingent deal (cash deal with no PPI request), they decided to sell it to someone else who was local. The friend asked me to try to persuade them to honor the deal with him. It got escalated to the general manager who admitted everything and then to their legal counsel who said, in a nutshell, "I don't care, sue us." The friend decided to just drop it, so in the end they were able to successfully hose him over with no ramifications.
FWIW, I tend to side with the dealer in disputes. I have had a dealer's license since 2001 and have a lot of friends, family and clients who are dealers. Some of the stuff people try to pull to take advantage of dealers is crazy. In this case, though, the dealership was wrong - and admitted it. They just knew litigation costs made it impossible for the customer to prevail. Don't blindly trust them. They may do right by you - but only if it's convenient and the MOST profitable option for them.
I can tell you for 100% certain that your credit card deposit means absolutely nothing to them.
10-23-2016, 06:25 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Ok, Midwest? Haha.
Yes, I agree they are a business. The CC deposit means nothing. They are upfront about it; it says so right in the disclosures on the transaction page of link they sent me. If they want to sell it to someone else our agreement is non-binding until signed.
As mentioned, they were going to and offered to address the tires and do the service but I asked them not address it and factored that into my offer. All will be done once I receive the car, I would just rather do the work myself and have tires I choose installed at my local tire shop in exchange for a lower selling price.
Also I do not believe that there's national law requiring a dealer to remove tires purely for age. State laws maybe be different but in NJ and NY where I practice there's no law regarding tire age. Yes, it may be a liability issue but if the tread depth meters out over 50% or so, which these do, usually they won't get changed. I looked at many, many used cars (Porsche and others) over the years at reputable, unreputable, high/low end dealers that had tires older than 5 years on them. So because of my past dealings I wasn't shocked.
Yes, I agree they are a business. The CC deposit means nothing. They are upfront about it; it says so right in the disclosures on the transaction page of link they sent me. If they want to sell it to someone else our agreement is non-binding until signed.
As mentioned, they were going to and offered to address the tires and do the service but I asked them not address it and factored that into my offer. All will be done once I receive the car, I would just rather do the work myself and have tires I choose installed at my local tire shop in exchange for a lower selling price.
Also I do not believe that there's national law requiring a dealer to remove tires purely for age. State laws maybe be different but in NJ and NY where I practice there's no law regarding tire age. Yes, it may be a liability issue but if the tread depth meters out over 50% or so, which these do, usually they won't get changed. I looked at many, many used cars (Porsche and others) over the years at reputable, unreputable, high/low end dealers that had tires older than 5 years on them. So because of my past dealings I wasn't shocked.
Well, I learned today that Dallas is in the southeastern part of the country.
I agree with Alan - verify. I'm shocked that they would sell a car at all with outdated tires and a service due (especially at that price point). That's something that a buy here-pay here car lot would do.
Additionally if you think Park Place won't screw you over to make a buck, think again. I know first hand. About 6 months ago, a friend from KCRPCA bought a 40th AE 996 from their sister dealership in Plano (suburban Dallas) - Park Place Jaguar. After they made a deal with him and took his credit card for a deposit on a non-contingent deal (cash deal with no PPI request), they decided to sell it to someone else who was local. The friend asked me to try to persuade them to honor the deal with him. It got escalated to the general manager who admitted everything and then to their legal counsel who said, in a nutshell, "I don't care, sue us." The friend decided to just drop it, so in the end they were able to successfully hose him over with no ramifications.
FWIW, I tend to side with the dealer in disputes. I have had a dealer's license since 2001 and have a lot of friends, family and clients who are dealers. Some of the stuff people try to pull to take advantage of dealers is crazy. In this case, though, the dealership was wrong - and admitted it. They just knew litigation costs made it impossible for the customer to prevail. Don't blindly trust them. They may do right by you - but only if it's convenient and the MOST profitable option for them.
I can tell you for 100% certain that your credit card deposit means absolutely nothing to them.
I agree with Alan - verify. I'm shocked that they would sell a car at all with outdated tires and a service due (especially at that price point). That's something that a buy here-pay here car lot would do.
Additionally if you think Park Place won't screw you over to make a buck, think again. I know first hand. About 6 months ago, a friend from KCRPCA bought a 40th AE 996 from their sister dealership in Plano (suburban Dallas) - Park Place Jaguar. After they made a deal with him and took his credit card for a deposit on a non-contingent deal (cash deal with no PPI request), they decided to sell it to someone else who was local. The friend asked me to try to persuade them to honor the deal with him. It got escalated to the general manager who admitted everything and then to their legal counsel who said, in a nutshell, "I don't care, sue us." The friend decided to just drop it, so in the end they were able to successfully hose him over with no ramifications.
FWIW, I tend to side with the dealer in disputes. I have had a dealer's license since 2001 and have a lot of friends, family and clients who are dealers. Some of the stuff people try to pull to take advantage of dealers is crazy. In this case, though, the dealership was wrong - and admitted it. They just knew litigation costs made it impossible for the customer to prevail. Don't blindly trust them. They may do right by you - but only if it's convenient and the MOST profitable option for them.
I can tell you for 100% certain that your credit card deposit means absolutely nothing to them.
10-23-2016, 06:31 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
So Texas is Texas. It's not a part of a geographic region of the country. I apologize to any Texans I may have offended.
10-23-2016, 07:02 PM
#43
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
According to the Census Bureau, Texas is in the South.
I personally would never consider Texas to be in either the Southeast, or Midwest.
10-23-2016, 08:22 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
Brig - Hey, as long as you are going in "eyes wide open", that's my only advice. We had several other guys in the KCRPCA who reported having good transactions with Park Place. I can only speak credibly from my first hand interaction with them. I didn't think they were scumbags, just that their #1 priority was the $$ (which truthfully is going to be the case with almost every car dealer on the face of the earth).
And after the ad nauseam discussion of tire aging surrounding the Paul Walker accident (in which I believe Porsche used the old tire defense and pegged 6 years as the safe lifespan, although I cannot find an authoritative cite on that for you), I am just surprised that a Porsche dealer would offer a car for sale with 8 year old tires and in need of a service.
I think it's smart that you just use those items as a negotiation point and get the tires and the service done at your own place. I'd have just thought both those issues would have been addressed before the car was advertised for sale. It reinforces my decision to always buy P-cars from private individuals.
It's a beautiful car, by the way. I know you'll enjoy it and it will amaze you. If you find yourself driving back from Dallas up I-35, be sure to stop by the Kansas City Automotive Museum which is right off I-35 at 119th Street. I'll buy you a cold beer and some of the best BBQ on Planet Earth (which is 2 blocks from the museum).
And after the ad nauseam discussion of tire aging surrounding the Paul Walker accident (in which I believe Porsche used the old tire defense and pegged 6 years as the safe lifespan, although I cannot find an authoritative cite on that for you), I am just surprised that a Porsche dealer would offer a car for sale with 8 year old tires and in need of a service.
I think it's smart that you just use those items as a negotiation point and get the tires and the service done at your own place. I'd have just thought both those issues would have been addressed before the car was advertised for sale. It reinforces my decision to always buy P-cars from private individuals.
It's a beautiful car, by the way. I know you'll enjoy it and it will amaze you. If you find yourself driving back from Dallas up I-35, be sure to stop by the Kansas City Automotive Museum which is right off I-35 at 119th Street. I'll buy you a cold beer and some of the best BBQ on Planet Earth (which is 2 blocks from the museum).
10-23-2016, 09:17 PM
#45
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Sigh.
Let me try again using smaller words.
The OP was dealing with a "Porsche dealer" (like that makes them special in some way) that refused to countenance a PPI on a used vehicle and is selling same with out of date tires. At least.
I recommended that he check the car out.
I used an example based on my own - same day - experience at a "Porsche dealer", looking at a CPO vehicle. Those, one would hope, have been inspected.
This particular one needed help. Despite it being a CPO vehicle. I would never have known that without looking at it personally.
I don't care if the dealer serenades me and strews rose petals in my path as I walk in. I'm still going to look at a used car before I buy it. I suggested that the OP do the same. That's all.
Do you work for Park Place? I've never seen anyone defend a car dealer quite as aggressively before. Especially at the mere suggestion that a customer verify something.
Let me try again using smaller words.
The OP was dealing with a "Porsche dealer" (like that makes them special in some way) that refused to countenance a PPI on a used vehicle and is selling same with out of date tires. At least.
I recommended that he check the car out.
I used an example based on my own - same day - experience at a "Porsche dealer", looking at a CPO vehicle. Those, one would hope, have been inspected.
This particular one needed help. Despite it being a CPO vehicle. I would never have known that without looking at it personally.
I don't care if the dealer serenades me and strews rose petals in my path as I walk in. I'm still going to look at a used car before I buy it. I suggested that the OP do the same. That's all.
Do you work for Park Place? I've never seen anyone defend a car dealer quite as aggressively before. Especially at the mere suggestion that a customer verify something.
Please name the dealership that you feel knowingly misrepresented the car you checked out.
I do not work for Park Place. But I have bought a car from them and so have others I know. You clearly know nothing about them and the OP clearly stated in his first post that he was going to have the car checked out independently before finalizing the purchase (Top tip: it would help if you read the thread before you posted in it), so your words of "advice" are unneccessary and uninformed.
Save your turd for someone else's punch bowl.
Thanks for playing.
Last edited by Carlo_Carrera; 10-23-2016 at 09:34 PM.